Last month, in the recommendations, MJ brought up a point that I have wondered about in the past. MJ was referencing Kate Carlisle’s Bibliophile mysteries and here’s her comment:
This author does a fantastic job of keeping the relationship between Brooklyn and Derek relevant and vibrant. They work beautifully together and their rapport adds to a pleasurable read. As with several cozy relationships, it started out antagonistic and developed into a ‘couple’ relationship. MANY, many other cozy authors (some of my favorites) send the significant other (once they become a couple) on trips and their part in the story is reduced to a few phone calls. KUDOS to this author for her creativity!!! (This might be a topic worth discussing sometime — do you want the male half of the couple to remain an integral part of the story or not?)
I didn’t respond at the time, instead I decided to take her advice and ask you all about this. Once a sleuth is in a “couple relationship” >>> have you noticed her (his) partner leaves town a whole lot? If so, how do you feel about the partner’s part being reduced to a few phone calls? Please post a comment. Thank you!
Hanna says
The opposite. Victoria Hamilton’s Gaslight mystery had socialist Sarah Brandt and Irish police officer Frank Malloy in antagonistic partners relationship. The social gap in late 19th Century New York would have been too much to reconcile. But the author did find a way to do this.
Similar with Anne Perry’s Victorian mysteries: Charlotte and Thomas Pitt.
On the other hand, Carolyn Hart’s Annie and Max Darling did tie the knot quickly and have been partners in solving many mysteries.
Sandt says
I agree about Anne Perry’s books including her Monk series as well as the Sarah Brandt/Frank Malloy series. There is not only a development of a relationship but a family as well. I love when the authors have a story that allow a minor character or two to develop and take the lead.
Patty says
It’s Victoria Thompson!
Rob says
Another case of an antagonistic male/female relationship becoming Man and Wife and doing it well is Anne Perry’s William and Hester Monk. A lot like Charlotte and Thomas, this couple had their challenges and overcame them to become a valid working marriage and a team of collaborators. Also in the Anne Perry tradition, Victor Narraway (Pitt’s former boss in Special Branch) comes to care for Vespasia Cumming Gould and they end up together and working with Thomas and Charlotte on later mysteries and a Christmas novella.
In Maggie Sefton’s Knitting mysteries, Kelly Flynn and Steve Townsend are very much a couple in the later mysteries and they share a future with her dog Carl and a new arrival! Stay tuned to that relationship being relevant for many years to come!
Betty says
I personally like the idea of keeping the romantic interest in the story. Derek adds a bit of spice and adds to the mystery. Its nice to know that the heroine has a handsome hero when she needs him. Also good to see a relationship that is lasting, faithful and interesting.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Betty, I think I know exactly what you mean when you say “when she needs him.” I was a fan of a Cozy Mystery series for the first several books until I noticed a frequent occurrence >>> the sleuth would do idiotic things (yes, you know the type: go to a dark building in the night to confront the murderer type of thing) and wouldn’t you know it! Her ex-husband would magically appear to get her out of trouble. I stopped reading the series after seeing that type of thing happening over and over…
Betty says
I agree that it doesn’t work in every case to have a male hero come to the rescue and it may well be that it does often become a repetitive theme. Maybe the heroine could try some common sense and not have to BE bailed out once in a while. Or is too hard to imagine a lady that can handle herself, ie. Miss Fisher in Miss Fishers Murder Mysteries. Although she does have handsome Inspector Jack, just in case. More spice. I love that series, except that she is far too promiscuous.
Luisa says
I agree. Miss Fisher is too promiscuous for my taste. I love the series and the couple’s relationship, but would prefer less promiscuity. I’m looking forward to the next installment. I want to find out if Jack goes after “his lady.”
Linda says
I like couples to be couples. An occasional trip is okay, but I want couples to be together.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda, better an occasional trip that makes sense than some type of police conference that is always drawing the male counterpart out of town.
Sheila in CT says
Do not like at all. I was reading a cozy mystery series that I did enjoy until the author split the couple up; had him working in another town. That stopped me from reading any further books in that series. I did notice in that she changed their relationship and they are back together. I’m considering to start reading the series again.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Sheila in CT, I wonder if the publisher made the author conveniently move out of town, and then realized that the move didn’t sit well with the fans of the series…
Kate says
Each author, hopefully, has a vision for their sleuth(s) and their couple’s roles. If not, the series doesn’t read well. As long as the vision is a clear and guiding principle, I’m cool with it, whatever it is.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Kate, I’ve wondered if authors start writing a series with a long-term concept in mind or if their characters simply take on lives of their own..
Readerdiane says
I think the worst is when they are finally together & the author kills him off! Boo hoo!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Readerdiane, one of my favorite Cozy series did just that, and I stopped reading it. It just was too abrupt a departure for me.
Billie says
I prefer to keep the guy out of town with occasional input. It’s all about the mystery for me and the her style of solving that mystery. If I want “guy” mysteries then I’ll read them but they are not as interesting as the ladies. If I want romance, I’ll read one of those on occasion. I do like couples already married like Lucy Stone.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Billie, I’m really glad you posted this comment. This hadn’t even occurred to me!
Mary says
If/when a series I read has main characters that become a couple, if he becomes just an after thought, I usually stop reading the series because they become less interesting.
I keep reading those that have couples that work together and those where they cease to be a couple but stay friends that occasionally work on cases together.
Hope this makes sense LOL.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Mary, your comment makes perfect sense!
Mary Jane says
I enjoy reading cozies so much that I like to have it both ways.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Mary Jane, aha, you like variety in your Cozies… I guess I do, too!
Ann says
I usually lose interest after they become a couple. Remember the Moonlighting series with Cybill Shepherd and Bruce Willis – it faded out after they got together if I remember correctly.
Ann
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Ann, I think you’re right >>> there are a number of TV shows that failed almost as soon as the leads finally became a couple. However, I was one of the people who finally got tired of the tension between the main characters in Castle. I guess it can go either way.
Katie says
I like the couples to be together – I stopped reading Cleo Coyle’s Coffee House mysteries because Clare
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kept sleeping with her ex-husband – now that Clare and the police detective are a permanent item, I have been reading that series again.
I like the cozies that are seasonal – I love all storms, especially snow storms!
Ann says
I like the Cleo Coyle series also but don’t remember Claire
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sleeping with her ex despite his many advances. Maybe I just forgot as I started this series a long time ago.
Katie says
I think that activity stopped with the book prior to ‘FrenchPressed’ – I kept reading reviews and synopsis of Coyle’s coffee house mysteries and discovered Clare’s thoughts – though she may be adamant, he is not – even with his new life. He is always there for her!
Janie says
I love the Victoria Laurie “Psychic Eye” mysteries. In this series she is married to an FBI agent and helps out the FBI on cases. Wonderful series!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Janie, that’s an interesting way for the sleuth to be involved and still leave the husband in the mix.
Patti says
Good question! I find it irritating when he’s no longer around, and am much less interested in continuing with the series. The romantic tension is fun, but once they are together the relationship can be sweet & funny, and can still keep me interested.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Patti, I guess it just goes to show that a good story, good characters, and good writing can keep our interest in a number of different ways.
Linda MH says
I agree with MJ. I like my couples to work together as a team. I’m definitely not in favor of the significant other leaving town. When this happens, it seems the only time he is mentioned is when he calls to say goodnight. I always get upset when an author does this, especially if I really like the guy.
MJ and Danna, Great topic!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda MH, I can’t take any of the credit! Totally MJ’s idea.
Gramadonnie says
I really like it when the couples stay together and work the mysteries together. Breaking them up, one way or another, just loses the story line, to me.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Gramadonnie, from all the comments people are making it looks like quite a few Cozy Mystery readers agree with you…
Ellen Byron says
Okay, this is an incredibly valuable thread for me. In my series (the Cajun Country Mysteries), I am working towards my couple actually getting engaged. As a reader, I always root for a couple’s “happily ever after.” As a writer, the struggle will be to keep the relationship interesting and throw obstacles in their way that do NOT break them up but in the end make them stronger. Before I began writing for TV, which is my day job, I was a freelance journalist and interviewed lots of soap stars. They lived in fear of ending up in a happy relationship and becoming a “coffee cup” – someone who sits drinking coffee listening to other characters involved in more interesting stories. I want to make sure that my characters’ happily ever after doesn’t turn them into coffee cups.
One other thing I have to ask – does anyone read the Maisie Dobbs series by Jacqueline Winspear?
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I’ve read every one of them, but oh man, was I upset when she killed off both Maisie’s husband AND baby. I could never bring myself to do that as an author. Instead, I will challenge myself to make engagement, marriage, and maybe even parenthood interesting!
Diane says
Really bothered me so much that I stopped reading that series!
Susy says
(Re: Jacqueline Winspear’s Maisie Dobbs series)
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Oh. I thought that the husband’s death and Maisie’s miscarriage was absolutely perfect for the series. Sometimes it seems an author will write themselves into a corner with regard to character development or storyline arc and then will employ some ”trick” to change direction. That I don’t appreciate and if the author’s choice doesn’t ring true for me, I stop reading the series. Their choice. My choice.
Linda MH says
Ms. Byron,
Loved that “coffee cup” story. So interesting! I’m glad to know you always root for a couple’s “happily ever after” (I do, too!) and that your couple will (hopefully) get engaged. I loved Plantation Shudders and can’t wait to find out what happens next in Maggie’s life.
MJ says
As I mentioned in the last posting, I prefer the stories by author Cleo Coyle when Clare and Mike collaborate together on a crime. Coyle often ‘sends’ boyfriend/detective Mike to DC, while Clare is in NY (where the story is set). The dynamics of the story are so much greater (I think) when they’re together.
Susan Wittig Albert also often sends China’s husband on ‘investigative trips’ and we only read about him through a few phone calls. I love, love the McQuaid character and especially enjoy it when he’s a partner in the stories.
Jane Cleland is another author who sends Josie’s boyfriend/significant other ‘away’ on trips. Their couple interaction is charming/appealing and they work so well together….just wish there were a lot more of it.
All three of these authors are great, GREAT story tellers and are amongst my favorite authors. There are others, but these three come quickly to my mind. And, I certainly won’t stop reading their books because of this aspect.
I suppose in some way, their thinking may be that they like to keep the protagonist independent. I can understand that, but when the author creates a couple with great rapport, I find it a MUCH MORE enjoyable read when both are featured in the story.
I really don’t even mean this in a ‘romantic’ way, but in a collaborative (or even supportive) way. It always adds another dimension to the story, generally with entertaining dialogue. YET, it is still the female protagonist who actually ‘solves the crime’.
It’s why I give high praise to the author(s) who’s creativity/ingenuity makes this happen. 🙂
Danna - cozy mystery list says
MJ, what a super, thoughtful comment. I think authors sometimes change things just for the sake of change. It would be nice if they would realize when they have a good thing going, and when they don’t. When the characters in a Cozy are interesting, I want to enjoy their presence in every book in the series.
MMJ says
I like my couples to stay together, sometimes working together, sometimes not—as would be the case in real life. I guess I don’t mind if the couple acts together in every book. Partners can have input on one another’s undertakings without having to be an integral part of every mystery’s action. However, I am with those that don’t want to read story after story where the couple is conveniently separated. I don’t expect couples to be together 24/7, especially if one or both have jobs that can take them out of town, etc., once in a while, but to never be together is ridiculous. I love that Brooklyn and Derek can be on their own but can work together, too. Same with Clare and Mike from the Coffeehouse series. Mary Daheim does a good job in her two series as well. I think the better authors are adept at keeping relationships fresh and writing couples that are interesting.
I guess what I care about most is that the couple stays together and we know that they’re still in love. What I can’t stand is waiting or rooting for a couple to get together only to have them broken up or otherwise “singled” again. That’s why I’m right now hoping Joanne Fluke keeps Hannah
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happily married to her reporter husband Ross. Not only can he be out of town on stories without affecting their relationship—thus allowing Hannah and her crew to solve mysteries, with or without his input via phone, etc.—it allows for Hannah and Ross to work together solving mysteries, especially if she starts travelling with him, when they’re together. It’s also why I will be very angry if Lily and Sailor (Witchcraft Mysteries) are broken up!
Linda C says
Danna, I find that a lot in some series mysteries, the male part of the team will go off somewhere to do his thing leaving the female to solve her crime on her own. Sometimes this theme is in almost every book.
It just seems to me, especially if both man and woman are in law enforcement, somehow they could solve a crime together.
A lot of times the man will go off someplace to do his thing and his wife/girlfriend doesn’t even know where he is or how to contact him!! This causes the woman sleuth to not only have to worry about solving her particular crime but then worry about him as well.This is often a reoccurring theme that to me is getting kind of old.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, let’s face >>> any particular formula that is used over and over gets old. Some of my favorite Cozies tend to be the ones that provide some surprises and are unpredictable.
Linda C says
Danna, Two cases in point are James Patterson’s newest Women’s Murder Club” 15th Affair” and Marcia Muller’s “Someone Always Knows.” Both very good books but both having similar plots where the man counter plots go off to who knows where leaving the woman to have to hold down the fort worrying about where he is while doing what she has to do on the home front. Both books have very different outcomes. This happens often in both of these authors books; at least it seems to me.
I am now reading Victoria Thompson’s newest “Gaslight Mystery, Murder in Morning Side Heights.” This book has both Frank and Sarah working to solve the crime. Very refreshing!!
There sure are a lot of good books on the shelves this summer! Lots of good reading!!
KAthleen says
IN GA McKevett’s series, she has kept the partner a viable entity in the stories.
Margaret StashEmpress says
I love that Dirk is part of the investigative team –not “coming to the rescue” but a true partner.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Kathleen, thanks for bringing G.A. McKevett to our attention. This way, other Cozy Mystery readers who enjoy the relationship between main characters to continue in a series will know to take a look at the Savannah Reid Mystery Series.
Janice says
I read the first two books in a new series recently and in both the detective (who quickly became the romantic interest of the main character) disappeared before the mystery was solved. In the first, he went to New York to settle his late wife’s estate and in the second he was hospitalized after an accident which had nothing to do with the crime. A detective from a neighboring county came on to spar with the main character before she solved the crimes. My only thought about the reason for this was so her romantic interest wouldn’t look incompetent being showed up by an ordinary citizen. I liked the series and will continue to read it but will be watching for this in the future.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Janice, I think you bring up an absolutely terrific point. How are we (the Cozy Mystery readers) going to take a detective seriously if he can’t solve his cases, and needs our sleuth to do his work? And, if this is the case, why is our smart sleuth still with him?
Brooke says
I’m really struggling with this issue in Joanne Fluke’s Hannah Swensen series right now.
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I was absolutely sure that she was going to marry either Mike or Norman, but then Joanne Fluke brings another character out of nowhere for Hannah to marry. I really don’t like the backseat that Norman and Mike have now taken, especially since they were such important characters earlier in the series. I’ve also noticed that the author seems to be hinting that Hannah’s new husband might have money issues and am wondering if he will be shuffled off to the side.
MMJ says
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Actually, Ross was a main character in one book and was mentioned in at least one other that I remember before the surprise reunion a couple of books ago. He was a college friend of Hannah’s. I think Fluke wrote herself into a romantic corner (ha, a triangle!) with Mike, who is condescending and doesn’t see Hannah as an equal (and who I tolerate), and Norman, who has Hannah on a pedestal (and who I actually like, Team Norman). I am now Team Ross. At least he seems to see her as the strong woman she was before the events at college drove her home and isn’t threatened by her intellect. I don’t know about the hints that he has something nefarious going on (and I didn’t particularly care for her “friends” offering to be there when things go south).
Reviewers seemed to be getting tired of the triangle. I, too, was getting tired of it and would have been more annoyed, but the time frame in the books from book 1 to now has only been a few years—a lot of murders, but only a few years. Since Hannah had just recently run away from college in the first book, the timing of the Hannah and Ross reunion and romance isn’t that far fetched. I am hoping a break-up is not in their future. I was hoping a great guy would come to town and sweep Hannah off her feet. That it turned out to be Ross is okay with me. If Fluke does decide to rid Hannah of Ross, I hope, sadly, that she widows Hannah (who then solves the murder) and leaves her a single mother. It would give her character some depth and put any romance with Norman or Mike out of the picture for quite a while. I’m actually tired of both those guys and wish they’d move on to other women.
Margaret StashEmpress says
That’s when I stopped reading — when the
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new character was brought in last minute. As much as I hated the ongoing triangle — she should have picked one — that is to say — the WRITER should have had the CHARACTER marry one of the pre-existing boyfriends — instead of bringing in a ringer at the last minute!
Margaret StashEmpress says
I believe that a couple should be a couple — working as equal partners — Tommy & Tuppence did it so well!!!!!! I don’t like the “husband/boyfriend out of town all the time” plotline, nor do I like the “husband/boyfriend rushing to rescue the too dumb to live sleuth”, nor yet the “husband/boyfriend repeatedly telling the sleuth to keep to her cooking/knitting/etc. and stop sleuthing” storylines.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Margaret StashEmpress… unless the sleuth is a caterer? 😉
Luisa says
So many thoughtful views on couples’ relationships in cozies! Makes one wonder what goes through a writer’s mind and why she (or he) makes certain choices. It must be a struggle to determine what will work to keep a loyal fan base. I have a deep respect for people who write and put their work out there for others to read and criticize.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Luisa, wow, I’d never thought about it this way! I guess the Big Five Publishers leave those decisions up to their editors, however, someone who self-publishes must have to really work at figuring it out.
glen says
Nobody mentioned Alys Clare, who solves mysteries with a nun (Mother Superior, actually) and a Knight. Some (suppressed) emotion there, that will never be acted on. But some of my favorites. (not sure it counts as a cozy, tho).
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Glen, thank you for mentioning Alys Clare. I’m guessing her Mother Superior doesn’t take off on trips all the time…
Robin says
Judith McMonigle Flynn and her husband, Joe Flynn, are a wonderful couple. Mary Dahiem’s Bed and Breakfast series has presented these two in such a way that they seem like an old married couple.