At the end of last month, as MJ was recommending three authors to us, she brought up a really good point about a lot of our sleuths’ love interests. (Keep in mind that MJ liked all three of the authors.)
MJ:
Re: Author #1:
“… has some quirky characters, and the ‘requisite’ (of many cozy writers) police boyfriend love interest…”
Author #2:
“…This author ALSO follows the ‘cozy’ formula of the love interest being a police detective…”
Author #3:
“…It appears *** is utilizing the same love interest formula as the previous two – police dept. boyfriend to-be!
I know several mystery cozies have love interests with OTHER occupations. But many (if not most) love interests are detectives (police or private), which is why I jokingly call them ‘formula’.”
My answer was:
“MJ, I totally agree about the ‘requisite” detective love interest! Either that, or the detective is their niece, nephew, son, daughter, best friend, neighbor, ETC! Sure helps the sleuth gather interesting clue-solving tidbits…”
Susie followed our line of conversation by adding:
“MJ’s point both intrigues and worries me. In the series I’m developing, I don’t have a detective as a love interest in the first book, but I do for the second. But the problem is, as Danna suggests, that the detective (or in my case, constable) comes in handy when you have an amateur sleuth, especially in a time period when women couldn’t serve as police, detectives, etc (my books are set in early modern England). But I suppose he doesn’t need to be a detective, but for a series you need a reason to keep bringing them together. Do you think a lawyer as the love interest is equally formulaic? And if so, do you mind? (I can think of the Anne Perry novels, but not too many others). I would love to know your thoughts on this.”
What do you all think? Do too many sleuths have too many police/private detective significant others?
harvee says
I agree. I always wonder why the boyfriend has to be a detective. Maybe this justifies the main character becoming a snoop or amateur sleuth. Dunno about this one. Let’s ask the authors!
Ann says
I haven’t used a boyfriend/relative police detective in my previous books, but have used someone who works in the police department and has access to reports in the cozy mystery I’m currently working on. He is the boyfriend of my protagonist’s friend.
Ann
Edie Dykeman says
As a reader, I never really thought about it. Whether they are in the police department or related position doesn’t make any difference to me – and I have read quite a number of books that have this trend.
As mentioned in other comments, I can see why authors would tend to have a fairly closely related family member or friend who could/would share this type of information with the sleuth.
linda says
In quite a few of the mysteries that have the sleuth being somehow involved with a cop, detective, etc, the main theme of this policeman type person is to tell the sleuth to stay out of the investigation, to let the police handle the situation. We all know, though, that that is not going to happen. In several Jessica Fletcher books and TV shows Jessica will say that she has no intention of getting involved in the investigation. We all know that is not going to happen, either.
A regular reader of mysteries, such as myself, could see that after two, or at least three, investigations the police type person might as well realize that the main sleuth has ways of getting information that he or she doesn’t have.
I would also think that with there being so many murders and with the cops having only so little time to investigate, these cops could save a lot of time by using the services of these sleuths. Seems to me the cops would also be saved the embarassment of having arrested the wrong person as often as they do.
Samantha_kathy says
Your reply actually made me think of the Tea Shop Mysteries by Laura Childs. There the police officer and the amateur sleuth do not have a relationship (at least, not in the books I’ve read, I’m not far into the series yet), but he is an outsider in the community while the main character grew up in Charleston. He actually uses her and her poking around to further his own investigation. Smart and believable behaviour!
Kathryn says
Danna, The access to the cops by boyfriend/neighbor/relative is tried and true in cozies but there is also the other side of the coin – amateur sleuths who are either ignored (Fethering Mysteries) or harassed by the police (Agatha Raisin Mysteries). These are usually where our heroine does incredibly stupid things to track down clues and throws herself in harm’s way on a regular basis because she just can’t leave the job to the police.
I think I prefer the boyfriend connection.
Lynn T. says
Maybe I am a fuddy duddy but I would be happy to just have a good mystery with a great cast of characters and leave out the love interest. I don’t remember Miss Marple getting all steamed up over a love interest. They were still very good mysteries. If there is a love interest, like it to be a minor part of the story so I don’t care what the profession is of the love interest. Some are half romance and half mystery. I would say more like chick lit. When the main sleuth looks at her love interest and describes all the flutterings she is feeling, it detracts from the book for me. If I want to read a romance, I would choose a romance. However, know it must be popular as most of the new mysteries do have a love interest. The book I am currently reading (a new published cozy) has the love interest as the sheriff. Nevada Barr has had love interests at time for Anna and at times no love interest. The love interest did not detract from the book and if there was not a love interest, it wasn’t missed by me. Am 7 books into the series so don’t know what is in store for Anna. Do know it isn’t a cozy but it came to mind about a good book that didn’t need the love interest.
Kay says
I’m with you, Lynn. Miss Marple, Hercules Poirot, Miss Silver, Sherlock Holmes, Nero Wolfe. They were interesting characters. Their love life was irrelevant. In fact, their life was background, not a main part of the story. A lot of Agatha Christie’s mysteries did have a love story in them, but it was between two characters who were not in the next one. The focus of the book was on the puzzle and that is exactly why I read mysteries. Yes, I agree that the current trend to have the protagonist’s love life involve a crime professional is getting very tedious. Crime professionals in the book? Sure, but give us a mystery, not a romance.
Julia says
Well, in all fairness, Miss Marple didn’t need a love interest who was a police officer, although she did actually know one or two as old friends. She was an elderly gentlewoman in a time and place where that would garner respect and attention from the police. The police would give her information because to not do so would be rude, and cast shame on the mothers and nannies who had raised them better than that.
Victoria Hamilton says
I was so torn, when constructing my mystery series, about the use of a police detective as a love interest. So far, the protag has a boyfriend (software company owner) but is attracted to the cop.
In a cozy, I see the use of a detective as boyfriend, because it gives the main character some ‘in’ in the mystery.
Deahna says
I think I agree with Kathryn. It does not have to be a boyfriend but there has to be some kind of connection to the police other than getting on their nerves. A good friend, relation and so on. Perhaps I’m stupid but how would the murderer really get caught otherwise? I know if I were to investigate a crime and find the solution I couldn’t do anything about it and the police would mostly not even let me talk to them, even less working in with them in some way.
Perhaps a reporter or doctor might do, too…
Brita
susie says
Many thanks for posting my question! I’m looking forward to reading everyone’s responses. Now I’m wondering about the opposite question: Are there any novels with male amateur sleuths, and if so, do they have girlfriends who are detectives/police? (I know, I know, one question at a time!)
Lynn T. says
Victoria Houston’s Loon Lake Wi flyfishing series has Dr. Paul Osbourne (retired widowed dentist) working with the Chief Of Police Lew Ferris to solve murders that Doc Osbourne comes across. Doc Osbourne would rather go flyfishing with Lew but murder gets in the way.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
The strength of the characters and setting, as well as the quality of the writing are what attract me to an author’s books. I have read many Cozy Mystery books, and I would estimate that at least three quarters of them use the police/private detective as either a love interest, best friend, or family member. But, this doesn’t bother me in the least. In fact, it explains why the sleuth is privy to a lot of the mysteries’ clues.
Obviously, as Lynn T. pointed out, Miss Marple never had romantic thoughts about one of the detectives on “her” cases. But, what Miss Marple did have, is a good friend who was a high-ranking Scotland Yard boss, as well as a reputation amongst most of the police detectives she encountered while solving her mysteries. And, wasn’t one of her nephews a detective who also opened a few doors for her? (Or am I getting her mixed up with another one of my sleuths?!?)
Poirot had also built up such a great reputation for solving crimes that most of the police forces he dealt with gave him a wide berth… a lot of them being in awe of him. No need to have a significant other with connections, when you have them already!
Deahna says
No, Miss Marple’s only real nephew is Raymond West the novelist. She invented another nephew, Denzil, to get information from a doctor in the West Carribeans – but he was supposed to have died five years ago.
You may be meaning C.I.D Dermot Craddock. In one of the books (I think it’s The Mirror Cracked…) he calls her aunt – but rather disrespectfully. He’s actually the godson of that High Ranking Scotland Yard boss, Sir Henry Clithering. I think in the end they kind of adopt each other.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thanks, Deahna! That’s what I get for listening to my husband!
(We both talked about it, and sort of thought there might have been a nephew… As I said, we BOTH talked it over, so I guess I’ll keep listening to him!)
Margaret says
I agree with Edie, as a reader I don’t put too much thought into it. In two of the series I read the Police Dectective in one, Chief of Police in the other, are love interests. In one series the Female Sleuth is married to a Lawyer turned Private I, but the Police Chief is just a good family friend. In yet another series there is a Police Force but no regular Officer there are several mentioned here and there. Then in another the Female Sleuth is a Private I and her Husband a Police Investigator but many of their crimes happen outside his jurisdiction.
I think it is important for Police to be involved in the story, but the love interest thing is not important to me. Even if the Police is a regular I don’t think it is necessarily important for any real relationship to the Sleuth. As long as there is someone there to make that final grab and close up the crime I think that is all that is necessary.
To be honest sometimes some Authors spend too much time on the love interst and not enough time on the story, regardless who the love interest is.
Margaret says
After reading more postings, I agree the setting, characters, plot development and believability are more important than the relationships among the characters.
All of the series I read are so enjoyable to me because of those characteristics. And even though there are so many crazy murders there is enough reality to keep them balanced. As I said up above, you need the Police to put everything together and wrap things up. That adds to the believability for me. Even if the sleuth does all the work the Police have to make the arrest.
But, personnally I would prefer if the relationship with the Police was something other than romantic. If it is romantic or they are in some other way related, I prefer the Author not let the relationship interfere with the sleuth “doing her thing”. But I also think it is kind of natural in mysteries for a relationship of some sort to develop.
linda says
Margaret, I suppose that has got to be a downfall that I have developed because I read so many mysteries. I have started to think too much while I am reading. Maybe what I need to do is to just read the book. I need to quit analizing so much. Maybe I would get more entertainment out of the books that I am reading. It is just that since I do read so many mysteries there are times when some of the content just sounds too unreal or just too hokie to me.
Carol says
Not to mention that Poirot had been on the Belgian police force before he retired. So he already had connections.
MJ says
In my post regarding police/detective boyfriends I said, “I JOKINGLY call them ‘formula'” (because there happened to be several all at once!). I REALLY enjoy a parallel story with a love interest. I don’t care if the boyfriend (man friend) happens to be a detective/policeman IF the character is WELL developed and multi-dimensional. It’s usually the parallel story line that keeps me coming back to a particular series.
One of my favorite authors created a very interesting love interest with the police chief in her first book. In the next few books of the series she sends him off to other parts of the country (to visit family, help with another crime, etc.). Therefore only a few phone calls made up that story line (b-o-o-o-o-ring!). I imagine the author did this to give strength to the female sleuth. BUT, I really MISSED the interaction between these characters. Perhaps that is difficult to maintain. I’m not an author, so I don’t know. I do know that Earlene Fowler does it well.
Many, many authors give the female sleuth a boyfriend another occupation, carpenter, doctor, lawyer, ME, vet, bar or neighboring business owner, etc., and then the police dept. connection is with a family member/friend.
I also read series where there isn’t the ‘romance angle’. I find these enjoyable, too. Sometimes the ‘other’ story line in a cozy is following family characters (ex: Anne George’s WONDERFUL and humorous series).
SO to author Susie (responding to my post about this), who is developing a mystery with a police/detective love interest, “make that character interesting, and I WILL READ IT”.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Well said, MJ! I totally agree with you. If the character is interesting, go for it!
susie calkins says
awesome! and many thanks to everyone for such wonderful insights! I guess I just had that moment of insecurity, working through book two before book one has come out! (Monster at the Gate, Fall 2012).
Lexie says
I read all cozy mysteries right now to get through a grieving period. So in reading through each Author’s series, I notice that the love interest is normally a cop, detective etc. I agree with Lynn that a love interest in a mystery is not necessary. I cannot help but wonder if the women appealling to women believe that we want a love interest? Not particulary, I would rather the sleuth be strong, resourceful on her own and independent of leaning on a man for the answers. In re reading many Miss Marple of late, I enjoyed that aspect was left out of her stories and the good old fashioned sleuth took front and center. As a reader it appeals to me more as a mystery if love interest is left out and the focus of the story is on the mystery. Let us appeal to the writers, that we want strong intelligent women making good choices without consulting with a man. I enjoyed the recent Knitting series by Maggie Sefton set in Colorado where the love interest took a very small part and was not in the vein of being the police detective.
linda says
Lexie, reading sure has been helping me through my grieving process too.
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
The “formula” doesn’t bother me at all. So long as the clues make sense and the story makes sense, it’s okay. If a story doesn’t require a police or detective love interest, that’s okay too!
Regina says
I agree with Danna that a strong plot and good characterizations can be most importatant in a mystery story. I recently read Deborah Crombie’s latest book in her series and she has managed to blend the police influence quite well. For older mystery stories, look at Ngagio Marsh’s books, the heroine was an artist while the hero was a Scotland Yard detective. That said I have been turned off lately by the recent spate of mystery stories where the heroine seems to lack common sense or is a know it all. These books are like cookie cutter versions of each other. J.A. Jance’s new book was such a book with a stereotyped plot. From the first chapter the reader knew the final result.
Susan says
One of the main reasons I put a detective friend in my cozy is that it helps with the question readers often pose, to me and as they’re reading, “why didn’t they call the police?” If your protagonist already has a police connection it settles their mind on the question to a certain degree.
Sandy says
Dorothy Gilman’s Mrs. Pollifax series is a favorite. Mrs. Pollifax is a unique person who does rely on help from others, but not in a romantic vein.
Julia says
I love the Mrs. Pollifax books – she was adventurous yet sensible, spontaneous yet dependable. As I get older, I also increasingly appreciate her ‘life begins when you want it to’ attitude.
Plus – silly but true – the pictures of her in the Reader’s Digest Condensed versions of the books looked like one my favorite aunts (who was also quite the free spirit).
linda says
Danna, After thinking about this topic some, maybe sometime a good topic would be what do each of us want in our cozies. I think I know what I want, but it would be interesting to learn what others expect from a good Cozy mystery.
Just an idea.
Andie says
Like others, I am more concerned with plot and characters than I am with love interests. Cozy mysteries that have a police (or FBI/CIA etc.) “foil” who opposes the main character, is more interesting to me than a love interest. When the amateur sleuth has to work around an official presence with wit and cleverness, without getting into real trouble, the story is more interesting. Sometimes these characters are so inimical or even threatening, that it makes for a sub-plot that keeps advancing the story.
A good example of this is the first of the Death on Demand series by Carolyn Hart (Death on Demand) and the next few titles in the series. In the later books, the police seem to mellow out a bit but Annie is not a favorite with them.
In fact, it is this conflict that make many of these stories more interesting to me.
I’ve known a lot of law enforcement people over the years and in many stories their actions are totally opposite that of a true professional, who would not leak information to a private citizen or turn a blind eye to hiding evidence and etc.
These actions annoy me but do often make for a good story.
SALLY says
Maybe one reason the love interest is a detective is that the heroine is always running into him. Since I enjoy romance novels also, I like romances in my mysteries. Just don’t draw it out forever so the romance takes away from the mystery. Mysteries where the police ask for help because the person has special knowlege are nice. After several books, the police should realize that the cozy detective is going to get involved. They should work together so the amateur stays safe.
MJ says
As these comments indicate, there are a lot of diverse tastes among cozy readers. For instance, I find Danna’s tastes very eclectic and versatile. She enjoys many mysteries I don’t like at all. On the other hand others she has written about, I truly enjoy. I can tell by these responses that several of you won’t like the same stories or characters within a cozy I like, and vice versa. It’s really great that we can respect (and possibly learn from) each other’s opinion!!
No author will be able to appeal to all of our tastes. If authors write an interesting cozy mystery which is comfortable/true for them, they will surely find an audience amongst some of us, but highly unlikely ALL of us.
linda says
Well said, MJ. I really do agree with you. There are some subjects that I just do not care for while there are several that I do. I really enjoy reading about the differences that those of us who respond in this blog have. I also enjoy it that we all seem to allow for each other to not only have those differences but that we allow others to speak their minds.
It would be a very dull world if we all liked the same things. Who wants to live in a cookie cutter world? Not me!
Angela says
The “formula” doesn’t bother me at all. For me it often lends credence to what is happening and how the amateur is able to pull off a lot of the details of solving the mystery. I also enjoy a little romance sub plot in the mysteries if it’s well integrated into the flow of the mystery and doesn’t detract from the story. Really any personal connections such as friends and family don’t bother me. That kind of stuff humanizes the characters and makes them more endearing in my opinion. However, if it’s not present and that fits the format of the stories that’s ok too (i.e. Christie). I think overall it always comes back to the writing and storytelling abilities of the author. Of course no author is going to please every reader out there so personal opinion and taste will always play a major role as well!
Larraine says
I get bored with the whole “love interest” thing also. It seems as if a strong, independent woman is not interesting to readers.
linda says
I think a love interest with a cop/detective is okay. I want some sort of stability to our main character. I want the main character to be at least believable. I want the main character to become more strong and independent. I want the love interest and/or some sort of relationship with the official investigator to be a strong one. The two characters don’t always have to like each other, though. Hamish Macbeth and DCI Blair certainly don’t care much for each other. But they sure do make for good reading.
I love the interaction between these two. I love reading how Blair can try to get Hamish into trouble and then Hamish getting around him.
Marianne says
Sometimes the love interest/cop works and sometimes it’s just annoying, as in Earlene Fowler’s later books. The guy is simply a stereotype and I wish she’d bump him off!
Julia says
Oh, I hear you on that! I’ve tried to read a few of her books, but while I enjoy the settings, the plots, and all of the other characters, I just can’t get past the proudly chauvinistic husband of the main character. After a few books I just stopped reading her because it wasn’t worth getting mad at an imaginary person.
Kay says
One more thought…
When the main character is in a romantic relationship, the author has to work at keeping the tension so the relationship stays interesting. So, in one book they fall in love. In another they break up. In another they get back together. Then they go through several books waffling about marriage. Then there’s the wedding, usually with mysterious events. Then they have babies. The love life becomes a huge complication that drives the future of the series, and the author has to work hard at keeping it fresh instead of focusing on really interesting and challenging mysteries.
This is why I prefer the protagonist’s life to be background, not a main focus of the plot. And the crime professional to be a friend, associate, neighbor, anything but a lover.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
The part of the “romance” isn’t what bothers me, it’s the fact that having a police/private detective makes it too easy a way to find out non-public information. It reminds me of what Andie said (in her comment from January 30 of this year) about paranormal mysteries:
“It seems in so many cases to be simply a “trick” to make a story develop along a certain line which simply isn’t possible without the use of a ghost, paranormal talent or ability to see into the future (or past).”
Those mystery series that feature idiots as the detectives, with the sleuth having to do all of the crime-solving, and then letting the bumbling detective take the credit are almost offensive to me. If there is going to be some type of personal relationship between the amateur sleuth and the detective, then let that detective not be a senseless fool! (I mean, what’s does that say about our sleuth? Doesn’t her association with the nitwit imply she’s equally as silly?)
Rowan says
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to respond because this is one of my personal dislikes. Generally speaking, if I pick up a new mystery series and find that the protagonist has a police officer as a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/etc, then it needs to have some OTHER major characteristic that I think might make it interesting or it goes back on the shelf. If I wanted to read about police investigations, I’d be reading procedurals, not cozy mysteries. It’s getting very old, and I never saw the point in it in the first place.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Rowan, but it sure does make it a convenient way for our amateur sleuth to “come by” some of the crime’s details! I also prefer it when our sleuth is “on her/his own” gathering up the clues…