I received a really good idea for an entry from one of you, who wishes to remain anonymous. Actually, I think it’s a really, really good idea, and would have loved to give credit to the person posing the question, but will go with what he/she asked.
“I was having a conversation with a mystery writer whose books feature an amateur sleuth. He mentioned he was thinking of killing her off a few books in, and having another younger (more interesting) character take over the crime solving business. Now my instinct as a reader was “No! Don’t do it!”, but I was really curious whether you or your readers knew if a mystery writer has gotten away with this successfully, or did it destroy the series. I don’t mean spin-off series, but out-and-out remove the main sleuth permanently and replace with a whole different lead sleuth. What do you think?”
I don’t know of any mystery series where the author has killed off the main sleuth and brought in a more “interesting” sleuth to take his/her place. I wonder just how boring (my word, not anybody else’s) this particular author’s main sleuth is. Is she/he boring to readers? (The sleuth, not the author!) Is he/she boring to just the author? Is this particular author’s mystery series a well-known and well-established mystery series?
If this particular author’s series is popular, my advice would be to: “Get over it! Don’t tamper with success! Go get yourself a pseudonym and start another series with a more interesting (to you) main sleuth.” (Many other authors are going the pseudonym route, so just join them. It makes it more difficult for the readers to keep the particular authors with pseudonyms straight, but apparently that doesn’t seem to bother the authors. And, let’s face it, with pseudonyms, if people don’t like one of your series, they may still give another one of your series a try.)
I am one of those people who missed Captain Hastings when he moved to Argentina. Yes, I know he wasn’t the main sleuth in Agatha Christie’s Hercule Poirot Mystery Series, but he sure was a great secondary character. And as such, he added a lot to the series. Imagine, though, that Christie has gotten rid of Hercule instead, and made Hastings the sleuth. So much more exciting: a military hero and a gaucho, to boot! Can’t get more “interesting” than that! Good thing Christie didn’t, or we would be reading the Captain Hastings Mystery Series!
So, although I don’t know of any successful mystery authors who have managed to pull the old bait and switch routine, I will agree with the person who sent me this entry’s subject:
“No! Don’t do it!”
Getting back to the actual topic of this entry:
“I was really curious whether you or your readers knew if a mystery writer has gotten away with this successfully, or did it destroy the series. I don’t mean spin-off series, but out-and-out remove the main sleuth permanently and replace with a whole different lead sleuth. What do you think?”
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
No, don’t do it!!!! Are you crazed!?!?!
I don’t know of a single series where this has happened, never mind been successful. If the author has “fallen in love” with a secondary character, spin off another series (Robert Crais did it successfully with Elvis Cole the detective–who had a sidekick named Joe Pike. Joe Pike now has a few books of his own.)
I just don’t see how you can kill off the main character without annoying at least some of your audience. I mean, if they stuck with you through 3 or so books…there had to be SOMETHING worth reading, right???
Ann Philipp says
I agree. Don’t do it. Use a pseudonym and start something new. Think Sir Author Canon Doyle. So sick of Sherlock he threw him off a cliff, and then had to bring him back.
I understand that life is too short to be writing or doing something you don’t want to. But killing off your main character smacks at thumbing your nose at your readers. So my advice is start something new, you never know, in five years the writer might want to come back to the sleuth again.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Ann, RE: “smacks at thumbing your nose at your readers” >>> What a great point!
Moonlight says
The closest I think would be Tony Hillerman’s Navajo Mysteries. It started out with one investigator, Joe Leaphorn and later introduced a second, Jim Chee. But Leaphorn never died. It’s been a while since I read many of those books but I think he just took a more limited role.
Arthur Conan Doyle killed off his main sleuth, Sherlock Holmes, and had to bring him back due to popular demand. The series did not continue without him.
Take a lesson from The X-Files. When Mulder left, the heart went out of the series.
Ann Philipp says
oops sorry about the misspellings.
I meant Arthur Conan Doyle. I should never type under the influence of a cold.
alfred says
Danna you can decide if this is worth posting or not but what about Monica Ferris in Crewel World, where it stated out as Margot owning the store and she got murdered and then Betsy came in and took over the shop and Series?
*Susan says
No offense, Alfred, but Margo was never really the focus of the series, I don’t think. She was killed in the first book, IIRC, and the detective the whole way through, has been Betsy.
Not quite the same thing. – Unless I’ve missed something?
I know they do it on tv all the time, kill off a character and replace him or her, or even keep the character and replace the actor (!) but I can’t really see it being the same with books.
It wouldn’t be the ‘Mrs A. Mystery Series’ anymore. It would be the ‘Miss B. Mystery Series’ and likely completely different.
Use the new sleuth in a new series, would be my thought, too. You don’t even need a pseudonym. Lots of authors write more than one series, and some even have the characters ‘guest’ or ‘visit’ in each others books. Always fun for the alert reader.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
*Susan, I used to watch Law and Order, and remember them substituting one beautiful, young actress with another almost every other year.
linda c says
But Danna, did you ever notice the “beautiful’ actress rarely had a New York accent?? But almost all the women who took the place of the everyday cop on the street seemed to have the accent!? Just wasn’t believable. But I loved the show. I will watch this show this winter on the rerun channels. Loved the show, loved the characters. Maybe I just nitpick too much.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, what I did notice is that each woman seemed even more glamorous than the last!
linda c says
And then Danna, Most of the women characters in the DA’s office had affairs with Sam Waterson and although he played a very good part, he really wasn’t that good looking!! It seemed to me that it got so where it was a prerequisite (close enough) for those women to be able to stay in that position. Then when one of the women came out that she was gay, she didn’t last much longer.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Gee, Linda C, I might have joined Law & Order later and quite earlier than I thought. I don’t remember any of Sam Waterson’s subordinates having affairs with him…
linda c says
If you like this show and if you get any of the reruns, pay more attention to some of these shows. I think 3 of the ladies ADAs had affairs with Sam.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, I’m glad I missed that part of the show! Those ADA were at least half his age!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Good point, Alfred. It has been quite a while since I read the first Needlecraft Mystery, but I remember being surprised that she was killed off.
marion says
I thought killing Margot in Crewel World was rather odd but perhaps the only way Ferris could do it if she was determined to write it as she did. I felt sad that Margot got killed off because I liked her. Almost a deal breaker but not quite because I liked the theme. In most other cases, I would have skipped it although I might have read the rest of the series. Of course, Margot was never actually the sleuth, just a major character.
linda c says
Although I can’t say exactly right this minute which series, I seem to think there are quite a few Cozy mysteries that have our main sleuth inheriting her own book store, knitting shop, business by having her sister, mother, grandmother, favorite aunt, what have you murdered. Seems like there are several cozy sleuths who are disenfranchised (big word for a Friday) with their previous occupations and then seem to become a natural in whatever business was left to them by the deceased relative.
Although the murdered person is mentioned quite often in the series, especially say, if our sleuth has inherited the business, they just aren’t the main sleuth.
But don’t kill off the main sleuth! I read the series because I like the main sleuth, the supporting characters, the storyline. I don’t even like it when after a few books the writer will sometimes kill off a major character, let alone our main sleuth.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
You’re right, Marion, but I was still surprised that she was killed off.
marion says
I don’t see how you could gracefully bump off your major sleuth. If it really isn’t working anymore, I would think it would be better to let the series die and start another.
BB says
I haven’t read this series yet, but have seen a comment that a secondary character in the Steven F. Havill’s Posadas County series becomes the main focus about halfway through. There have been seven books since this occurred so I guess the switch was successful. BTW, I presume these are not cozies since they’re not on the site.
My first instinct would be to start another series rather than an author killing the main character and have another take over.
Frostie says
Unless the main character is a real dud, leave it alone.
It would be completely repulsive if the main sleuth was just
fine and replaced with someone younger.
Really – for what reason ?
As if what, older (as in anyone not young) people have no
value and are useless ? Not attractive enough ?
Want to appeal to a younger crowd ?
Hah !
Whoever it was should read The Gladdy Gold Mysteries
by Rita Lakin.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Frostie, I wonder if Murder, She Wrote would have lasted even longer if they had gotten rid of Jessica and brought in a young va-va-voom as the main sleuth! Maybe they would have had more teenage boys watching, but I doubt the Nielsen ratings would have been quite as high.
linda c says
No Danna, Don’t even suggest such a thing as replacing Jessica!!
linda c says
Danna, One of the reasons that I quit watching the afternoon soaps is because of their writers “killing off’ favorite characters. I know they did this for a variety of reasons: the actor wanted off, the producers couldn’t agree to contract demands, writers couldn’t figure out what more to do with the character, killing off the character gave substance to future plots. But I hated that.
Then some time down the road some characters would be “found alive” elsewhere hiding under another name, or that character would have developed amnesia. I remember Roger Thorp in the Guiding Light “died” 5 times. Then just as the character would start to get interesting again, zip, there he/she was dead again!!! Thorp died for real when the actor who played his part actually died in real life!!
No don’t “kill off” main characters. This ruins the plots for me.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Oh my gosh, Linda C! It’s hard to believe this soap opera even tried to bring back a character from the dead five times, let alone that it apparently worked!
linda c says
Just maybe those kind of plots is what caused most of the CBS soaps to be canceled!!
Kath says
Definitely do not do it. Start another series, your readers will never forgive you for killing off their heroine, I’m afraid.
Rachel says
Sounds like it could be the beginning of the end of the series. Is one of those cases where the writer can’t know how the reader will take it. The writer wouldn’t like it if the readers stopped buying his books if the readers really liked the main character.
Sounds like a big no-no and forget the idea to me.
Julia says
I don’t know of any authors who killed off their main character in favor of a newer chracter, but I have seen a segue from one to another that worked well (at least in my opinion). Margaret Maron started writing the Sigrid Harald books, then for a single book transitioned over to the widowed Kate Honeycutt (Sigrid’s cousin) when Sigrid went on leave from the police force. The next book, and all the subsequent ones (except for the last two) revolve around Deborah Knott, an old family friend (and eventual in-law) of Kate Honeycutt’s second husband. To me the transition really worked, but as I said, Sigrid didn’t die she just took a leave of absence.
When I’ve seen that sort of things in television (such as on “Profiler” or “Northern Exposure”), it almost never ends well. Audiences, like readers, bond with the characters more than the story format or the setting – take away the main prop and it all falls apart. The writer would be better off just switching over to a new series and abandoning the first one than trying to stuff Detective B into Detective A’s clothes and hope no one notices.
linda c says
Julia, that is interesting! I hadn’t read any of the Sigrid Harald series but I love the Debra Knott series. I had no idea that theses 3 series were connected. I will definitely now look for these other two series. Thanks for stating that. I think I would like to see how Debra got to be a judge. This is another author who doesn’t write fast enough for me.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Julia, I remember Northern Exposure. They would have done better if they had simply wrapped up the show. That was a mess!
Susie says
I agree…I’d be concerned readers would be pretty annoyed. I’m wracking my brains, trying to think of a time when I’ve seen this done, and I can’t say that I have. The only thing I can think is from tv: X-Files as Moonlight mentioned, and Alias when Jennifer Gardner was pregnant and they sort of had different stars for a while. Even then they didn’t KILL off the main characters. I’d be pretty annoyed if I had spent time with a series, mostly because I liked the lead character, and then the character was killed off.
sandra gardner says
Hi,
The main reason I’ll stick with a mystery author is the main character — and possibly interesting secondary characters. So, why on earth would I want the author to kill off the reason I’m reading the books in the first place? BTW, I’m now almost finished with writing the sequel to my first mystery. Same MC, plus a few other mainstays, some new characters and of course a whole new mystery…..
Sheila says
Danna, I agree with Linda C about the soap characters being killed off. In fact when I was reading your blog I thought about the soaps I used to watch. There isn’t a book series that I have read (so far) where the main character has been eliminated. If the main character(s) in the books are selling the author’s books, leave them be. Why “kill” a good thing?
Sheila says
As a reader, if I enjoyed the series, I wouldn’t want to see the sleuth killed off – I don’t think I would continue to read the series. When it’s happened in TV shows, I have stopped watching. But, if the author was unhappy writing that character, I think it would show so I guess the author would be better just to stop writing that particular series and find a way to do a spin off. The other option would be to have the two characters form a partnership and start to concentrate more on the one the author wants to write about and if the series continues to be successful then the original sleuth could maybe be retired. Hillerman basically did this with Leaphorn and Chee. Leaphorn retires and continues to pop up as an adviser and infrequent investigator. It works well – at least I still continue to read the books!
Ann H says
Help, please! I found an American cozy – an older, retired female sleuth who travels around the country solving mysteries. Along the way she picked up a younger woman who now accompanies her. Like a dummy I did not write down the author’s name or even the heroine’s. I truly enjoyed the first one. It also reminded me of one about an older woman who has a mobile home and travels in the West. Can’t remember names for that one either. And I agree – do not kill off your hero or heroine. Thanks if you can give me some help (and even if you cannot). Ann
linda c says
Ann H. I think maybe you might be thinking of Sue Henry’s “Maxie and Stretch” series as the older sleuth who travels around in an RV. Loved this series. Don’t know what happened to Sue Henry. I loved all 3 of her series. They were great.
Don’t call yourself names for forgetting an author’s name. I have been trying to remember a certain author’s name about a guy who has been hit on the head, has amnesia, thinks he is a private eye like Sam Spade. I can’t even remember which library I got the books from. Each time I go into one of the 3 area libraries I try to take the time to examine each mystery book to see if I might find this author. Haven’t found it yet. I am beginning to wonder if I just made this guy up in my own head!!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Ann H, I think Linda C. is correct on the RVer being Sue Henry‘s Maxie & Stretch Mystery Series. However, I don’t know who the author is with the older, retired female sleuth who gets a younger woman to accompany her.
linda c says
Could the older woman be Ann B. Ross’ “Miss Julia?”
Donna says
I agree with all of the above – don’t do it! As a reader that would annoy me enough to stop reading that series (and stop reading that author, suspecting he/she may do it to the trusting reader again). As a writer, in my opinion, it sounds more like a gimmick to attract attention in the hope of generating more sales. Maybe I’m cynical. 🙂
linda c says
Donna, I got a feeling that being ” cynical” is a trait of what some of us more serious cozy mystery fans are starting to become!!
Colleen says
Hmmmm….I thought I had read on Lincoln/Childs web a while back about them getting rid of Agent Pendergast (gasp!!!) and that’s why they created their new character, Gideon.
linda c says
In two of the books in the Stone Barrington series by Stuart Woods, two of what I call main characters have been killed off. I haven’t stopped reading the series but I sure was disappointed these two established characters were killed off. There wasn’t even a murder that killed these characters off, either.
Again, too bad these authors don’t ask their readers if the main characters should be killed off.
Laurel says
The character/sleuth is one of the main reasons I keep on reading a book. I think it would be the death of a series (no pun intended) to kill of the main character. There’s been a few side characters I would’ve been happy to see taken out, but leave the main character alone!! Seriously. Can you imagine the Tea Shop Mysteries without Theodosia?!?
Regina V says
One of the main reasons I read many mystery stories is the role of the chief character. If he or she is not present, I cannot enjoy the story. For example I just finished reading Denise Swanson’s new Scumble River book, but I did not like her other series. I guess I am an old fuddy dud.
linda c says
Regina, In one of Kathryn Hall Page’s Faith Fairchild series, the neighbor Pix Miller was the featured sleuth. Faith had very little to do with that book in the series. I didn’t care as much for that book. But this didn’t stop me from reading the next books in the series. I loved the series. Hope more soon follow.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
There you go, Linda C, a perfect example of a really good author being able to feature a sleuth other than the main sleuth. There are certainly ways to go about it…
marion says
I just remembered that Hercule Poirot died in his last novel “Curtain”of old age and illness. I have not read it but I believe that he leaves advice, clues, something to Hastings regarding the mystery in that novel. Christie wrote “Curtain” and “Sleeping Murder” (Miss Marple’s last one) during WW2 due to the quite reasonable fear that she, Christie, might be killed due to the bombings over England. She wanted to be sure they were complete and available if she should die. I understand that since she did not die during WW2, she put them away until they were printed at the end of her life when she became too infirm at the end of her life. I always thought this was very foresighted of her but it is also much different from bumping off your main sleuth because you don’t care for him or her. I understand that Christie became very tired of Poirot just as Sir Conan Doyle did of Sherlock but she could not get rid of him because he was too popular as was Sherlock. So she came up with Jane Marple, Tommy and Tuppence and several others as well as keeping up her novels with Poirot. I understand that her novels with Poirot are considered her best although I prefer Jane Marple. I still don’t see how an author could successfully kill off their main sleuth.
Susie says
Marion, I was just thinking about “Curtain.” I was so upset by that book; I felt a bit betrayed by Christie. Not just what happened to Poirot, but the final actions that the detective took. I just like to pretend I never read it 🙂
Donna says
I find it interesting that Christie put Poirot to rest in his final novel but allowed Miss Marple to go on her merry way. “Sleeping Murder” is among my favorite Christies, a really wonderful small town cozy. “Curtain”, on the other hand, is an excellent book but definitely does not leave the reader with a warm and fuzzy feeling upon saying goodby to the little Belgian sleuth. ( I recently reviewed “Sleeping Murder” on my website, along with a few other Christies that are exceptionally good.)
C.S. says
I say go for it. There are several cozies in which I detest the main character but like or love the town and secondary characters. I keep reading because I want to be in that place or atmosphere but if the main sleuth was dead it would just be icing on the cake. Plus, it would buck the convention that no matter what happens, the main character in a cozy will always be okay! It’s really hard to feel excited or thrilled when the sleuth goes up against the latest villain because I never feel like the sleuth is ever in any real danger. It would be pretty thrilling to pick up some of the cozies I’ve read and have the main sleuth be bumped off and replaced by someone new and more fun/interesting/exciting whatnot. It would revitalize the series and would open that series up for people who were never interested in the first sleuth, and even if some people didn’t like it, they would definitely be talking about it! ^_^
linda c says
I can see how any author can get burnt out by writing on only one certain character. I used to research my family tree and then got tired of it. I used to paint ceramics and got tired of it. I used to research certain Civil war regiments from this area and got tired of it. But now that I am retired I find myself wanting to get back into these things again.
Maybe all these writers, especially the true artists could just set that character aside for a while and then maybe sometime down the road they will again find interest .
When they kill the writer off this just cannot be done so easy.
Just rereading what I had written I got to thinking that maybe some writers will kill off a main sleuth or character so that somebody down the road can’t resurrect the character. An example of this is when the story of Scarlett O’Hara from “Gone With the Wind” was recreated in “Scarlett.” Just a thought.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, I don’t usually read books by authors who piggy-back on a famous author’s series. I have always thought that an author should be able to “invent” their own character.
When I was in those mystery reading groups, I remember an author who came out with a series based on Sherlock Holmes. I was the only person in the groups (two groups that I can definitely remember) who didn’t like the mysteries, even though the author was actually a talented writer.
linda c says
Danna, I think I have seen books on the mystery shelves at the libraries that claim they are continuing with the Sherlock Holmes series. I seem to think that I also have seen some for Agatha Christie books. I haven’t pickrf any of these books up mainly because I haven’t read all of the books written by the “real” authors yet.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, I know about a few authors who have continued the Sherlock Holmes character, but PLEASE tell me it’s not so about Agatha Christie’s one-of-a-kind characters!
linda c says
Danna, I have to go to the library later this week. If I can find that series of books that are tryingto continue with the Agatha Christie books I will write that author’s name down.
We got our first snow storm here in Ohio today. I only went out today to get the mail and to take the dogs outside. One dog loves the snow. He kept wanting to go back outside about every half hour. The little one wanted no part of it. I had to pick her up and carry her outside. Then she would run back into the house and crawl under the covers in her bed!!
Great day for reading though!!
marion says
Although I enjoyed it well enough, I thought Ripley’s “Scarlett” was rather an odd duck. In a pre-publication article, I remember reading that someone said that Ripley’s Scarlet, Rhett, and the other characters were really not meant to be like Margaret Mitchell’s characters, only the names were the same. I think that’s a very fair assessment. I believe that Ripley was approached to write the novel to answer the question, what really happened to Scarlett and Rhett? Also, the tie-in, I’m sure, was meant to boost sales more than “just another southern novel”. There is also a craze to write “in the style of Jane Austen” novels which I think is fine as long as it’s made clear to readers that the novels are only meant to give the flavor of her novels and not to be copies. Jane Austen, Margaret Mitchell and other classic authors, are exquisite and unique and it is ridiculous, I believe to directly say that another’s writings are just like their’s. I know I am deeply suspicious when I come across a southern novel that claims to be another ‘Gone With the Wind’. This is a shame because it may be a very good book in and of itself. I strongly suspect that publisher’s are responsible for such statements, not the authors.
linda c says
I hated it that J. K. Rawlings “killed” so many regular characters off in her last Harry Potter book so that no one else would ever try to continue the series. But in doing so I think she would have a hard time writing any more either. But just maybe that was a reason also: so that she herself couldn’t write any more in that series. But I sure would have liked to be able to see a version of Sir Nicholas’ Death Day party sometime!!