First of all, let me tell you ALL how much I have enjoyed reading all of your comments to the last entry posted! Donna, you certainly had a great idea! (When Is Too Much Romance Not a Good Thing?) Usually, I try to answer all of your comments (other than the monthly recommendations entry), but this particular entry seemed to just take off. So I’m going to address the general impressions I got from your comments:
I just re-read all of your comments, and it looks like the majority of us don’t mind a little romance, but we don’t want it to become a major component in our Cozy Mysteries. We don’t mind it, but it’s not a definite requirement. Most of us agree there is a definite difference between a Cozy Mystery and a Romance novel with a little mystery in it. We are reading Cozy Mysteries because they are, indeed, mysteries!
Several of the comments reflect that one of the reasons we like the Cozy Mystery genre is because of the fleshing-out of the characters and their relationships with other characters, whether they are romantic interests, or not. We want our characters to interact with each other; to be like the type of people we know in “real life”. (After all, not all of the people we know “in real life” have significant others.)
I love that some of you were able to cite some really iconic sleuths who have loving, committed relationships. Those of us who are Ngaio Marsh fans can remember how smitten Roderick Alleyn was with Agatha Troy; however none of us was privy to their “romantic” life. It wasn’t a subject which took up a lot of the books. Same goes for Dorothy L. Sayers’ Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane. We see the same thing with Agatha Christie’s Tommy and Tuppence. The authors focused on the mysteries, not the couples’ courtships and/or marriages. The authors’ abilities to write good mystery novels with engaging mysteries is what keeps us coming back for more.
P.S. As an aside to love triangles, which were brought up a few times: It looks like a lot of us agree that you should be able to decide on one suitor. It’s realistic that you would have a few doubts, and that it might take you a little time to find the person who is right for you, though here’s a thought >>> If you can’t decide between two potential love interests, then neither of them is probably right for you! (Maybe I’m just jealous, though. I don’t remember any time in my life where I had two men who desperately wanted to be with me, and who didn’t mind that I was dating the other!)
Stash Empress says
Well put Danna! Now is there any way you can package this up & send it to all publishers and/or writers who think we won’t buy mysteries without TOO MUCH.. everything…?
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Stash Empress, wouldn’t that be great?
Marja says
I like the mysteries in which a couple — or a couple-in-formation — are trading snappy comments, obviously dote on each other, are tolerant of each other’s frailties and annoying habits — but work very well together on solving the mystery. If I have all that, I am happy to have romantic scenes, as long as the curtain drops after some smooches are exchanged. Kerry Greenwood’s Corinna Chapman mysteries are a great example of this.
The married/committed couple mysteries in which only coupledom and love are apparent, but sex is not, so much, are exemplified by Ann Perry’s William Monk and Hester Monk, and Thomas and Charlotte Pitt, mysteries. Perry beautifully describes the love one feels when looking at the smile creases on your spouse’s face, or a fleeting expression, or the light on their hair, or their voice as they valiantly defend their point of view … the tiny everyday treasures that come from a committed relationship.
Unresolved Sexual Tension — such as we saw with Scully and Mulder on “The X-Files” — can be great for a few books, but after awhile I hope to see it resolved, otherwise it seems the couple is a pair of dorks. [Scully and Mulder were, it seemed, a little too busy to take time out, but maybe they did. I like some “mystery” there sometimes too.]
The torn-between-two-lovers gets old after one series entry. Make up your mind, lady sleuth! If you’re good at finding clues, can’t you find the clues in your own life [as Danna says]? Well, maybe not; as humans we sometimes are blind in our area of expertise when it comes to ourselves. But — as a reader, it drives me crazy.
Thank goodness, I haven’t read too many cozies where the male love of the female sleuth sweeps in to save the day — I like the ones where only until AFTER the sleuth has risked it all and solved the mystery and is trying to figure out how to make it to the hospital / get back to civilization / whatever, does he appear. I’m fine with him coming to “pick up the pieces” and give well-deserved comfort.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Marja! Ditto!
Susan* says
“I’m fine with him coming to “pick up the pieces” and give well-deserved comfort.”
I don’t think they really qualify as ‘cozy’ but I do have to say that JD Robb’s ‘Eve Dallas’ mysteries are a perfect example of this.
Her husband is always available to help out / pick up the pieces / offer comfort, but ‘she’ is definitely the lead character, and he never just swoops in and solves everything when the ‘poor helpless female’ gets in a muddle. (Not to say he doesn’t ‘try’ to take over or become overprotective, sometimes, but… Lol!)
There is a bit more sex (and even some romance) in these, but it’s still very secondary to the crime aspect.
Exactly what it should be, in fact, while still very true to life.
In the same vein, we have Val McDermid’s ‘Kate Brannigan’ series, too. Her boyfriend / partner is there when he’s needed, but he doesn’t ‘intrude’.
He’s a great foil for Kate, and a definite part of the stories, but the relationship doesn’t overshadow things. It’s just there.
Lynn T. says
Very good post, Marja!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Marja, I so agree with you about Scully and Mulder! What was with that?
I have wondered if some authors keep their love triangles alive so that they don’t have to deal with intimacy between two characters. I mean, it’s like Ann L said about M.C. Beaton’s Hamish Macbeth. Would we accept a female sleuth who bed-hopped so liberally? If the sleuth can’t decide between two prospective people, then that part of the character doesn’t have to be developed. (I’m not sure I’m saying this the right way. Hope you get what I mean…)
By the way, I have read a few “knight in shining armor” rescues at the end of some Cozy Mysteries, and am willing to take one or two of them in a series, but when it gets to be a recurring event, then it’s time for me to call it quits with that series.
Susan* says
I haven’t read the Hamish MacBeth series, but Kerry Greenwood’s Phryne Fisher is quite a ‘liberated’ woman. She will quite often have a different lover in ever book – even after she met her regular man, Lin Chung.
Yet, she is, I believe, still very popular. Could it be the fact that she’s a historical character that makes a difference, do you think? A modern woman who behaved like this wouldn’t be as acceptable?
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Susan*, Hamish has had trouble becoming enamored with a lot of women. You might have a point with Phrynne. That, and the fact, that she’s a flapper. Perhaps a lot of us have a “You go, girl!” attitude about her bucking the system. (Just a big guess on my part!)
Susan Sundwall says
Stephanie Plum has been dithering between two lovers for 21 books now and that angle seems to work for her creator, Janet Evanovich. I’m working in a bit of romance for my protagonist Minnie Markwood into my third mystery and what everyone has expressed here will go a long way in helping me determine how far to go with that. It’s a tricky thing because Minnie is middle aged to boot. Very interesting and informative topic Danna!
Gayle says
I am so glad to know you are still writing. I just ordered your second book from Amazon. I need to finish a book I just started so I can start yours. Then I will have to wait for your third.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Susan, I can’t take credit for the topic. Donna wrote to me with that question. I agree with you about it being a particularly good topic.
reginav says
Danna After preaching about my distaste for too much romance, I find I must eat my words. There have been a few series in which romance played a vital part and I enjoyed them. Maybe it was because the author handled them tastefully or the characters were in a long term relationship. One of my exceptions to this rule is Kerry Greenwood’s Phrynne Fisher series. In those books I skip the steamy descriptions. Most books today seem to reflect everyday life. My rule of thumb is if I find books offensive, I exercise my own censorship by not buying them. It is the power of the purse.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Regina, I am guessing that the “power of the purse” is what dictates how much (or how little) romance is in our Cozy Mysteries. A lot of the time the publishers/editors are the ones who control what is going on in our books, and I’m sure they have done careful monetary calculations to determine what sells.
Gayle says
Danna,
I keep looking for Susan Sundwall on the Cozy Mystery list but can’t seem to find her books. I loved her 1st book “The Red Shoelace Killer”. Just now I find she is writing her third book….I ran right to Amazon and ordered her second book, “The Super Bar Incident”. I am sure I will enjoy it as much as I did her first.
If I am looking under the wrong name, on your list…let me know.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Gayle, I included Susan Sundwall in a Free and Cheap Kindle/Nook list. I’ll go add her to the July 17 Free and Cheap Kindle/Nook List. Thanks!
jrv says
I like a little romance with my cozies. I don’t want graphic sex…but I do want to feel a little heat between the couple. It seems that sometimes cozies make the romance bland and uninteresting….it’s a fine line!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
JRV, a good point that some other people have brought up is that even Agatha Christie (usually) had a possibility of a romance between two characters. Not “steamy”, but something that we, the readers, could hope would ultimately end in a romance.
Jackie J. Griffey says
This is a wonderful discussion and sharing – one of the things about the Sheri’ff’s wife in my Maryvale series is that she’s an incorrigible match-maker. The relationships of the characters is important and they stay in character. They and their relationships are sometimes funny or endearing but the solving of the case is the main thing. I love cozy mystery and they’re my favorites both to read and to write.
Good reading and good luck to all of us and thanks for sharing.8-)
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Jackie, well put!
HollyB says
This is really going back but what about Frances Lockridge & Richard Lockridge’s Mr. and Mrs. North series?
Danna - cozy mystery list says
HollyB, thanks for bringing the Lockridge’s Norths to our attention!
Billie says
Ah the North’s, read the whole series and wished there were more. Someone in an earlier comment mentioned Sally Goldenbaum’s books. You know there is love and caring, but it’s not steamy. Cozies aren’t meant to be steamy. Some authors bridge romances to mysteries very well. Please keep mentioning authors, books. I keep expanding my list, but mostly use the state library system and can keep up with series by getting books from another library. The newest writers aren’t as well covered yet, but can still keep jotting down the names for later.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Billie, I’m glad you have been able to add new authors (and some not so new!) to your list of authors to follow.
Billie says
And many thanks. I enjoy this blog. I’m going to mention David Suchet on here. He was the bad guy in a movie, 2nd in a series, with “I feel the need for speed” hero. It was kinda intriguing after watching him as Hercule. I will have to see the Peter Ustinov movie from Netflix. Watch every Miss Marple the BBC puts out. Please keep writing about interesting books, series. I like going back to old Posts (like the one about Annie in the Attic series) also.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Billie, I’m glad you are enjoying the Cozy Mystery site!
Kiernan says
Does it make a difference if it is victim/witness romance instead of the sleuth/protagonist’s romance? The Miss Silver mysteries always have a young couple with romantic elements, very tame and golden era of mystery, but Miss Silver only knits and saves the day.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Kiernan, I totally agree with you about the romantic elements in the golden era mysteries. A lot of the Agatha Christie mysteries also have a romantic couple, even if they are secondary, you sort of find yourself rooting for them >>> hoping that neither of them is the culprit.
Billie says
I try to read an author’s series in a row and after awhile got tired of the damsel in distress, handsome hero to rescue her in Miss Silver series, but after a spell of other books I was glad to see two Miss Silver books that I must have missed. And Kiernan, I just found out in the last one that Miss Silver did French knitting.
Linda L says
Has anyone seen the Mr, and Mrs. Murder series on PBS lately? They are crime scene cleaners who are of course, “amateur” sleuths. They are a great couple, witty and warm together and very spirited. The mysteries are interesting and the way she always “wins” the game of paper scissors rock is hilarious. There’s very little graphic violence and their physical relationship is only hinted at, but I’m not really sure they’re “cozy”. Fun, though.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda L, thanks for telling us about this PBS showing. I’m going to check with my local PBS and see if they show it. It sounds like a show I’d be interested in seeing.