My last entry elicited a lot of really good comments on whether or not we would continue reading a Cozy Mystery series that we are enjoying… after the main sleuth does something for no apparent reason other than progressing the story line. (In this case it was keeping a very vital piece of evidence from the competent police department.)
Thank you all of your responses… You certainly have me thinking about this, and I’m still deliberating on whether I can continue with this sleuth. There is a lot to think about… in regards to what we want and expect from our sleuths.
Amongst all of the responses, there was another theme that came up:
Gail wrote:
… Lately, I’ve found many of the cozies with a gimmick (cozies built around a hobby, special interest etc) to be really problematic. It seems the mystery plot is sacrificed for the sake of the hobby. So everything stops while we have a little lesson on quilting, or coffee making or something. The gimmick needs to move the plot along or enhance our understanding of the characters. The movement of the plot shouldn’t stop for a lecture.
Not what you asked but it’s annoying me lately! And that’s my new YUCK category.
Maria responded:
Gail, I’ve seen this a lot lately too. A little bit of instruction or hobby is okay–cooking four meals and two desserts in the first 30 pages…well, I think I better go eat something instead of read…
The balance has to be there. And it’s probably easier to take after I love the characters. Sort of like watching grandma bake (or quilt or whatever). If I already like the characters I can enjoy the atmosphere, but if it’s just some gal named Sophie discussing the pros and cons of dark brown sugar versus molasses versus white sugar there better be arsenic in the white sugar that kills the guest! (okay that was kind of mean, but you know what I’m getting at. I hope!)
I have to admit to trying a few Cozy Mystery series just because they revolved around a particular interest of mine. One of those themed series was the Needlecraft Mystery Series by Monica Ferris. Because I enjoy needlework so much, I thought I might enjoy this particular series, and I was right! Monica Ferris is now on my “favorite authors” list. The needlework theme is what caught my interest, but the actual series is what has made me a Monica Ferris fan. (Also, I don’t remember Ferris ever actually devoting pages in these Cozy Mysteries on “how to” types of instruction.)
Do you all have opinions on special interest themes?
If you enjoy a particular theme, say paranormal, do you read every paranormal author you can get your hands on?
Do you think that some authors are using gimmicks to get us to read their books by getting on the bandwagon of a popular theme? (I do! Certainly not all authors, but I think that many do!)
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
I love paranormal, but no, I don’t read every single one. The main character HAS to be alive. I just cannot get into zombies or vamps. The heroine has to fall for an “alive” person too. I mean, really. Who wants to SERIOUSLY marry a vampire, no matter how sexy? HE’S DEAD. Sleeping next to him has to be the “cuddling with a nightmare” of NIGHTMARES!
On a more pragmatic approach, will he take out the trash? Walk the kids to the schoolbus? And if I have a bad day, do I want to wait until nightfall to have a shoulder to cry on???
As for zombies, well. UGH. I don’t even like pulling turkey off the bones after Thanksgiving all that much…oh, let’s not go there. Let’s just not go there, I’ve grossed myself out!!!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Maria, I have to admit that your point about sleeping next to a vampire does not seem sexy AT ALL! Also, when would the two of you sleep? I am assuming that those books take place during the night, with a topsy-turvy schedule for sleeping, walking the children to night school bus stops, etc.
As for equating zombies to pulling turkey off the bones… the thought is almost enough to make me a vegetarian!
Arlene says
Oh, this is a gray area for me. For instance, I enjoy paranormal with ghosts and witches, but no vampires, please. I’ve really enjoyed Madlyn Alt’s witch series. But not fond of the Sookie Stackhouse (sp?) series.
I don’t mind mysteries with a theme of interest, but I really think Maria’s comment about “the balance has to be there,” sums it up.
Finally, I think that some authors use a gimmick because they’ve heard a publisher or agent is looking for something along these lines. It’s very difficult for a writer to resist when they know someone is waiting to publish a certain type of book.
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
Ghosts and witches are my favorite paranormal theme!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
You make a good point, Arlene, about writers wanting to fill a void once they get wind of a publisher or agent looking for a particular specialty…
Julia says
For me it depends on how the theme of interest relates to the characters’ lives. I don’t mind if the theme relates to a hobby the characters pursue in their spare time, but I really don’t like the mysteries where the main character gives up a career (a fabulously successful and well-paying career, at that) to pursue a lifelong dream of owning a shop that caters to his or her favorite hobby (said shop of course also becoming immediately and overwhelmingly successful). I just find it too hard to suspend disbelief and enjoy the story.
Kimberlee says
I’m not a huge fan of paranormal mysteries. I do like witches though, so I will read any mystery with a witch in it. However for vampires, werewolves and zombies they have been so overdone lately that quite frankly I am so sick of them and almost wish they would disappear. It’s like Twilight comes out and the whole world goes vampire crazy. Personally it’s all a little annoying. Like marketing gone crazy. Take a good idea and wear it out to make money and make everyone sick of vampires, zombies, and werewolves in the process. This is just my opinion though, some people really like that stuff.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Kimberlee, I thought it was Buffy the Vampire Slayer that got the ball rolling. I never watched the show, but I know it was a big hit in the late 1990s. (Twilight might make more sense.)
Alfred says
Hi Danna and all just wanted to let you know Monica Ferris’s next novel Threadbare will be out December 6, 2011. I know I can’t wait to get it, have read all of them but the last one. Anyone know why Laura Childs only writes one Tea Shop mystery a year? It is a long time in between to wait for the newest one. By the way in Monica’s novels I pronounce Godwin Goodwin it just seems easier to say to me.
Jennifer says
Alfred – I am TOTALLY with you on the Godwin vs. Goodwin. Thanks for the update on Monica Ferris. I just started her series, am on the second one. Really enjoying!!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thank you, Alfred. I have added Threadbare (by Monica Ferris) to my December 2011 Mystery Book New Releases working list.
As for Laura Childs only putting out one Tea Shop mystery each year, I am guessing that since she has two other strong mystery series (Scrapbooking Mystery Series and Cackleberry Club Mystery Series), she is kept busy actually writing three mysteries each year. (Again, that’s just a guess on my part.)
Eva says
Talking about all these mystery hobby-themed makes me miss Rosemary and Thyme even more. I wish they would produce more of this series. This is such a wonderful series and those two ladies/gardeners are such a delight. They haven’t even shown the repeats in a while.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Eva, aren’t those two lady gardeners a treat? (Not to mention their wardrobes!)
Deborah says
I found this site through a forum on the former Recipezaar website (now food.com) in a discussion of cozy mysteries with a culinary theme. I do tend to like settings (including hobbies or jobs) that involve interests of mine, whether that is cooking, needlecrafts, books, animals, or whatever. The balance is definitely important, and that is where the skill of the author is important. I remember one mystery that revolved around a knitting shop and adjacent coffee shop and EVERY TIME either was entered the same descriptions about the explosion of colors or the aroma of coffee and cinnamon buns just drove me crazy. I did finish that one but haven’t read another by that author. BTW, also love Rosemary and Thyme.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Deborah, reading about the aroma of cinnamon buns wouldn’t be very good for me. I’m with Maria, too much description of delicious food makes me want to go eat! (More on that another time!)
linda says
When I am reading a book that has a lot of eating in the story, I feel like I should put the book down and go cook something! Ye Gads, I am about 60 pounds overweight now.!!!!
Angela says
Another great topic! I will try any book that has a theme in a topic that interests me. Some will work, some try too hard and don’t. I’ve also had success in trying themes that didn’t really interest me but after reading the books made me want to find out more on the topic. I completely agree that some writers go way overboard on “teaching” their subject in the text of the book. It’s a definite negative for me. Some of my favorites who really work the theme in rather well, in my opinion, are SW Albert “China Bayles” and Earlene Fowler “Benni Harper” series. Neither of these authors cram the topic down your throat but give you just enough info to want to know more on your own.
I do agree that, as Danna has said, the theme takes the place of the small village in today’s world. So I recognize the importance of the themes in our cozies but there must be a balance. And yes authors most definitely seem to be writing to fill a niche if they can find one.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Angela, I first read reviews by people who have read the books in a series, and then, if the reviews look genuinely good, I try each mystery series in my particular themes of interest. I have been able to find a lot of authors who I follow that way. (But, I have also found some real stinkers that way!)
I’m like you: I’m not an herbalist, but I read Susan Wittig Albert. Not am I a physicist, but I enjoy Camille Minichino. So, I don’t HAVE to enjoy a theme in order to enjoy an author.
Julia says
One author I found particularly good at imparting knowledge without really seeming to be was the late Dick Francis. I know he’s not a cozy author (although in one sense I suppose he was because the horse-racing world is a small and interconnected one) but I learned a lot about computer programming and arbitrage and fine liquors and photography, to name just a few things, while deep in one of his wonderful stories. And for all the information he imparted, he never lost the thread of the narrative – perhaps because he wasn’t trying to win over readers to a favorite hobby. He was using the material as background or setting or motive, so it always came as a part of the whole, not a deviation from it.
Judy says
I love to quilt so I do look for the quilting series books. Although I have not enjoyed all authors out there equally – some who come highly recommended. One author I really have enjoyed is Earlene Fowler. Her books are not really about quilting but have a quilt influence in them. I have read all of them at least three times.
Monica Ferris’ books are fun and since I have lived close to Excelsior and know most of the places she mentions it makes it even more enjoyable. I worked in a quilt shop for a while and most of the characters in there remind me of my former coworkers. 😉
Sometimes I do get a little weary if the character whips up an entire meal (or whatever) in an unrealistic time just after they have chased down someone. They are worn out, bleeding, and might have broken an arm….. all the while they are telling you how they are putting together these fabulous recipes…..you get the idea!
Although, I am reading a knitting series that almost makes me want to go to the knitting store and take up knitting….she describes the yarns so sumptiously. But I don’t need another hobby right now. 🙂
Rosemary and Thyme….Oh! they are my favorites! I wish they would have filmed more episodes. I have recorded all of their shows and pull them out every once in a while to watch.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Judy, isn’t it a disappointment when authors “who come highly recommended” just don’t cut it for you? There is one particular mystery author who has a huge fan base, who I have tried (repeatedly) to enjoy. I just don’t get why so many people find her so funny. I find her humor to be forced and exaggerated. Her sleuth gets into situations, which I am not able to see as humorous. I am sure that I am in the minority with this opinion, I just can’t shake it. I am always disappointed that I can’t find joy when she publishes a new book.
It must be a lot of fun to recognize places in the Ferris books. Also, seeing people in the characters Ferris inhabits her books with must be a lot of fun.
I love your “worn out, bleeding, and might have broken an arm” example of a sleuth who carries on with her specialty theme endeavors.
Wanting to take up knitting because the setting of your series is a knitting shop reminds me of me wanting to enjoy cooking when I read a culinary mystery with wonderful recipes and descriptions of the food. However, I am always able to get back to reality before I actually put the ingredients on my shopping list… I am not crazy about cooking/baking… although I do enjoy eating the final products!
Cheryl says
I think I began to read most of the cozy mysteries & found your site because of a theme. I like to crochet, read & love cats so there seem to be several books that have those type themes. I don’t actually get a lot of my reading done but am growing a great collection to get to someday 🙂 Thanks for your continued great information!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Cheryl, I’m glad you’re enjoying the site. I am not getting much reading done these days, either. But, I have a whole bookshelf full of Cozy Mystery books (and a few not so Cozy!) to eventually read. And, you’re welcome!
Angela says
Something else that theme cozy writers tend to do is not only over explain things but continue to do so book after book. I understand the need to reiterate a little for those who might read out of order but do we really need to know the whole process for making “(enter theme here)” in detail in every book??
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Angela, I think I know what you are talking about… I have tried Cozy Mystery theme books in series with “specialty themes” that didn’t particularly interest me. In a few of them, I was bored out of my skull at the minutiae the author wrote about covering the theme specialty. I wonder, however, if I would have enjoyed the minute details about the theme – had I had a real interest in the particular theme. I’ll use the example that Judy used above:
“… I am reading a knitting series that almost makes me want to go to the knitting store and take up knitting….she describes the yarns so sumptiously….”
Since I enjoy needlework – not knitting – I would probably enjoy reading about different yarns even though I don’t knit. Yarn VS threads… close enough for it to pique my interest.
Angela says
Yes there is truth in what you say about not minding the details as much if I enjoy the topic. I’m reading a theme series now that is giving me this problem and it is not a topic of interest for me. I’m on the 8th book now and really tired of hearing multiple times in every book about how to make the perfect “thing”. The problem is, if I forget this irritant, I really enjoy the series. But with each new book I’m finding that I’m becoming less tolerant and willing to overlook the “theme details”. I think I will have to come to one of those hard decisions like we discussed in this week’s other blog post. To continue or not continue that is the question. 🙂
Laura says
Another good discussion topic! It’s funny, but I never thought of “Rosemary and Thyme” as a theme mystery until now. I think that is because the theme doesn’t intrude on the plot, but makes it more interesting. The “Pie in the Sky” TV series is the same way. You get a little bit of information about running a restaurant or how to prepare a dish without having to watch them make the food step by step. I do gravitate towards the cozies that incorporate my personal interests and I do understand that it is a marketing ploy, but writers enjoy having a steady income just like everyone else.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Laura, I see you enjoy some of the very same shows I do. I probably wouldn’t have thought about “Pie in the Sky” as a culinary theme… but you’re right, it is!
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
One theme I don’t like: the nosy reporter.
Which is strange because I love the “nosy older gardener” or nosy just about anything else! I love Dorothy Gilman’s series and Anne George. Neither character(s) is terribly young, but they are very nosy! I don’t think I’ve seen either of them use the TSTL either (Too stupid to live.) They always try to take backup…it doesn’t always work well…
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Oh my gosh, Maria! It seems like, of all people who should be nosy, it would be reporters! You know the expression: Nose for a story…
(As I get older, I appreciate the “older sleuth” theme more and more!)
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
I KNOW. And I don’t know why it bugs me when it’s reporters. I think perhaps because too many of them do DUMB things and use the excuse that it is for their job. ‘Must get the scoop.” or “The story at all costs.” When in reality, only an idiot would do some of the things they do! And the little old lady gardeners seem a whole lot smarter. At least they take a trowel and know how to lock themselves in the shed if need be…
Or so I think. It’s just an impression I have. I’m sure there are good books and not so good on both sides of the “nosy.” :>)
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Maria, I have to admit that the whole Paparazzi thing these days gives “nosy reporters” a really bad rap.
Anne says
I’m with you Danna on the older I get the harder it is to relate to the 20 something heroine…even the 30 somethings. But nearly all the older sleuths live in a retirement home community.
I have not been as lucky to get through a cooking theme book with recipes without trying some of the recipes. I have found some real dogs… but have to blame the cook not the recipes!
I love the Angels themes. Especially the new one by Carolyn Hart. She is a treat!
Julia says
I used to read one cooking themed series devotedly…for, I think, the first 4 books. Then I realized I really didn’t like the main character (much too pushy and know-it-all), but I very much liked some of the recipes. So I started buying the books in used instead of new, and stored them with my cookbooks instead of my fiction!
Alfred says
Cheryl, please try Miranda James’ books. They are good.
Jo says
I love cozy mysteries that are about hobbies that I enjoy, like needlework. I also love cats and I don’t mind if there is a cat (or dog, for that matter) in the mystery, BUT I don’t like the animal to help solve the mystery! No psychic cats, please! I don’t mind if the mystery is about the pet, but I want my pets to be just regular pets. This comment may be off topic, but this is a pet peeve of mine.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Jo, I think that a lot of people agree with your “No psychic cats, please!” remark…
Marja says
Ha-ha! I’m just the opposite — if there are cats, I don’t care if they’re psychic, or if they can talk, or whatever, and I LOVE when they help solve the mystery … as long as the author does it with some sense of reality.
For example, S. R. Murphy’s cats have to be careful not to be discovered, but their “cat reality” is very realistically portrayed. They love to hunt! Yet they can be in awful danger from humans.
Probably Rita Mae Brown’s Mrs. Murphy mysteries wouldn’t be your cuppa, but they’re beautifully told — and illustrated!
Cats are so mysterious in themselves, y’see, that I like the idea of them helping decode “human” mysteries.
I love all the cat-themed books, but Clea Simon’s books have a special place in my heart, because they show a vulnerable sleuth who loves her non-talking, non-psychic cat with all her heart. And it doesn’t hurt that her Musetta is almost a double for my dear Emma cat. “Meh!”
Larraine says
I’ve pretty much stayed away from themes except for cats and libraries. I really like that combination. Not sure why. I read a Sarah Graves home repair book which I like. I probably will go back to that series one of these days. I like some cooking ones although now there are so many. I actually prefer darker mysteries to cozies, although I read the latter. I like the “coffee” mysteries. However, the paranormal ones – yuck! (Except for Clea Simon’s Dulcie Schwartz series which features the ghost of the heroine’s cat. There’s that cat theme again!) I tried one vampire series and tossed it after a couple of chapters. Forget angels. It’s really a matter of personal preference. The important thing is that it’s well written and not stupid. That can be hard to find.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Larraine, I think that some mystery themes lend themselves to be particularly difficult to write… given some of the themes out on the market.
I would think that it would be particularly difficult to write a mystery series based on a subject that really, when you think about it, is rather unappealing. I don’t know (since I have never been interested enough in the theme to actually read one) how vampires could be made into enjoyable main characters… Do they all sit around drinking Bloody Marys – literally? How does one make a blood-drinking sleuth appealing?!?
Maria (BearMountainBooks) says
There are some good ones with vampires in them–but none are the main protag. In the ones I like the vamps are usually the enemy! Or at least a “marginally” nice guy who *might* help the hero/heroine…but you can never forget they might eat you for lunch!
I like John Levitt’s paranormal mysteries–these are NOT cozies by any means. There’s some pretty bad guys in there and the bad creatures are not something you want to meet in daylight, never mind a dark alley!
Ilona Andrews and Patricia Briggs are two more very good paranormal mystery writers (and both write fantasy). But these are NOT cozies. They’re VERY thriller-like.
I liked the first few Sookie Stackhouse mysteries, but the problem was that line between the vamp being a boyfriend. I still think she should have left the vamps as bad guys or at least “other” and found herself a nice human to settle down with. Shrug. I can’t get into the “vamp” as a romantic interest. Ick. Dead…meat. Ick. But the first one especially is a very good mystery.
I like books where there’s a family ghost too. Oh what is that southern one…Carolyn Haines. The first few in that series were GREAT cozies, with a cool ghost. Excellent series.
I haven’t read any really good cozy “vamp” character ones, but as I said, I tend to like the vamps as the bad guy and so those are darker and not cozy.
Miranda says
I stumbled upon your site a few months ago and I have to say I am very, very addicted!
I’ll throw my two cents in on the topic at hand and say I agree with everything already stated by other posters. I was very excited to read a culinary themed series about a cooking class. Needless to say, the TSTL moments really put me off and I struggled to finish the first book of the series. I tried to read the second book in the series just to be fair before making a decision, but alas, I couldn’t even get through ten pages before becoming disgusted with the “best friend character”. Ugh.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
There you go, Miranda! You are yet another person who is much, much kinder than I am! (Good thing I don’t judge people in my life as harshly as I judge the fictional characters in my books!)
Donna says
The mystery, the puzzle, the clues and the suspense are the most important elements. I enjoy a special interest theme as long as it adds to the story in the same way that an atmospheric landscape – the English moors, for example – adds to the story, and that it does not distract from the mystery. Too many special interest books are long on “theme” and short on “mystery”!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Donna, you might have a point about the theme being a focal, with the mystery being a secondary issue. I just tried a new-to-me author which just bogged me down, down, down with Too Much Information. Needless to say, even though I like the specialty theme, I will not continue with the author…
Carrie says
The main problem I have with themed books is where I feel as though the author is lecturing me on their pet subject. I don’t mind if the author wants to base their mystery around cooking, quilting, gardening, etc. however, I don’t want to be bombarded with lessons on how to cook, quilt, garden, etc. If I wanted to learn I’d go to classes or get a book on that subject from the library.
I’m not a fan of paranormal books. I much prefer my cozy mystery books to be based on reality. Yes, I know I don’t live in an English village in the 1940’s, but at least I can relate to the characters. I really can’t relate to vampires or zombies.
I read cozy mystery books because I like the puzzle of trying to work out who the murderer is. I enjoy trying to spot red herrings in the plot and picking up on the clues as they appear in the story. When an author interrupts the mystery to share their vast knowledge of how to plant a bush or cook a gourmet dinner I find it stalls the story and is an irritant. In fact, I’ve even resorted to jumping over these “how to …” lessons so that I can carry on with the mystery.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t mind being informed by an author about their hobby, I just don’t like being lectured. I prefer a light touch with extraneous information that isn’t integral to the plot. I don’t like being beaten into submission by the sheer weight of their extensive knowledge.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Carrie, I totally agree with you about authors stopping the flow of the story to lecture us about their specialty. I might be interested in food (sometimes a little TOO interested in the actual eating part) but I certainly do not EVER plan on making a soufle, so I really don’t need the step-by-step instructions woven into the story line, while the sleuth is trying to solve a murder. I know she’s an amateur sleuth, so she has a life which doesn’t include sleuthing… I’m just not interested in being taught her particular specialty skills.
Shawn says
I have been really enjoying all the books I have read. I love the culinary theme although I have read some on fashion and motherhood and more. So far I cannot complain. I have found a nice balance between the mystery of being a sleuth and for examples sake being a cook. Not alot of instruction but just enough.
There was one series I read that was boring and I never finished the series.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Shawn, a lot of the time, the specialty theme is what gets my attention. It sounds like you do the same thing as I do>>> seek out books that include our themes of interest. It sort of opens the door to those authors who include out specialty themes. I think that perhaps there is a difference between information about the specialty theme, and instruction.
(Shawn, it sounds like you have had great success finding new-to-you authors based on your specialty theme interests.)
Camille says
I’m not a big fan of the “special interest” mysteries, except for one thing: those special interest mysteries kept the cozy genre going through the dark times of the past 15 years, when the big chain booksellers wouldn’t carry a midlist genre book, unless it had a hook.
So I am grateful for the “niche interest” mystery, even if I am not as interested in reading them. (And I’m not as interested for the very reason mentioned above — while I like feeling like I’m reading about a whole culture, I want to read a _mystery_. Or at least a suspense adventure.)
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Camille, I hadn’t thought about special interest mysteries saving the Cozy genre. I’ll have to think about this for a while…
William Doonan says
You bring up an important lesson for all mystery writers. If we want readers, we have to create engaging characters. These characters have quirks, histories, and hopefully, complex inner lives. But often what keeps a reader coming back is a shared interest with the protagonist. My detective, octogenarian Henry Grave, solves crimes on cruise ships. So I’m clearly hoping that his adventures will appeal to cruise lovers. But at the same time, I can’t go into the same cruise details each time a ship sails. So I guess the trick is to share different nautical elements in each story. Fortunately, cruise ships are worlds unto their own, complete with diverse personalities and often strange populations.
William Doonan
http://www.williamdoonan.com
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thank you, William, for telling us about your mystery series. Henry Grave sounds like an interesting sleuth, and I like the cruise ship theme…
Patricia says
William, I just returned from a cruise to Alaska, so your cruise detective really appeals to me! I can imagine all sorts of mischief that could occur on cruises. Those ships are so big and there are so many people on them, that the possibilities are endless. I remember reading a Nancy Fairbanks cozy once (can’t remember the name) that took place on a cruise ship. Heading over now to check out your Henry Grave.
Edie Dykeman says
While I enjoy cozies, getting bogged down in detail really turns me off that particular author. I would rather read a good mystery with a theme than read detailed information regarding the theme and have a lite, uninteresting mystery.
There are some great comments on this entry and certainly gets us thinking about why we read certain authors/themes.