I mentioned that my husband and I were listening to Josephine Tey’s Daughter of Time while on the road to visit my mother, brother, and Yellowstone. When I became aware of both the British list and USA list of the top 100 mystery books of all time, I decided that I wanted to broaden my mystery reading scope. What better mystery book to start with than the number one pick on the British list, and number four on the USA list!
We finished listening to this 1951 mystery book, and I was left with sort of a question – Is this a mystery or is this book a history-mystery? I’m not sure I would have picked it for either if those lists, but, of course, my opinion is just that, my opinion.
While I found the novel interesting, I wouldn’t necessarily call it a mystery. The book takes place in a hospital room. This book, not being the first in Josephine Tey‘s Inspector Alan Grant Mystery Series, has the characters already knowing each other, and the action already known. Apparently, Alan Grant has been injured, and is stuck in the hospital with more time on his hands than he knows what to do with. His well-meaning friends have supplied him with books, but Grant simply isn’t in the mood to lay there and read.
This is what then starts the “mystery” part of the book. He begins to wonder if King Richard III did indeed kill his two young nephews in order to continue reigning Britain, or if the story that has been commonly told by authors (including Shakespeare) is simply a made-up piece of history.
I think that perhaps, years ago, before the time of the internet, the historical references that Grant and his cohort uncover could be made to look like some type of “mystery” solving. However, having access to all sorts of facts now that we can simply Google a topic made this book seem like less of a “mystery” and more of a “possibility” – which is why I’m not sure if I’d think of this book as the number one (or four) best mystery book of all time.
I think that I am going to have to read more of Josephine Tey’s books and then perhaps compare the two books to see if she does, indeed, write true mysteries – at least what I would conside true mysteries.
Daughter of Time was certainly interesting to listen to, and, since both my husband and I (he, more than me) are interested in history, we both enjoyed it. But, I would not categorize it as a classic mystery book – but then, that’s just my opinion.
marion says
Interesting… You know, when I started reading cozies, they seemed a bit odd to me because some of them, especially, seemed to talk about everything except the ‘puzzle’ at hand. I had been used to Christie and Marsh who focused primarily on the puzzle. My mother, who was a librarian for forty years and also an avid reader told me that often ‘mystery novel’ was loosely defined in more recent years and could range from a straight forward puzzle to a story that could be considered almost any other type of novel except that it had a grain of a puzzle in it. I suppose so but I am still rather bewildered by the range of novels which are called ‘mysteries’. Maybe Daughter of Time was Tey’s particular ‘twist’ on a mystery, like my mother suggested?
Oh by the way, I am beginning to reread Ferris’s ‘Crewel World’ rather than start where I left off as I mentioned the other day. I figure that I’ll read the whole books until I get tired of the setting and then begin to skip read till I’m caught up to where I left off with ‘Knitting Bones’. Also do you have a listing or entry somewhere of mystery authors who write about other than murders like secrets or treasures, ect. I know about Atherton and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and I enjoy them but I’m sure there must be others. Sometimes I really want to read a mystery but I don’t want to read about a murder. This sounds weird but, you know, kind of grown-up ‘Nancy Drew’ although certainly it could be more sophisticated. Come to think of it, based on what you said, maybe I should look at some Tey!Thanks for your help.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Marion, I don’t have a list like that, but hopefully I can remember this comment when I get home and ask for readers’ help.
marion says
Come to think of it, I believe that whether or not Richard killed the boys is still unresolved, according to historians. So,,,, shrug!
M. J. says
Yes, the “jury” is still very much “out” on Richard III’s guilt or innocence in reference to the murder of his nephews. There are many theories extant about who was responsible for their death and/or disappearance. When I read Karen Harper’s “Mistress of Mourning” recently, she presented a theory I had never heard of before… And I just realized if I say what the theory is, I will be giving away an important plot point – and I don’t want to do that!! So, if you’re curious, read the book. I enjoyed it. (Incidentally, this is the same Karen Harper who writes the Elizabeth I mysteries.)
Julia says
Technically ‘the jury’ came back with a verdict of not guilty a number of years ago, from what I’ve read. They conducted a mock trial on the BBC (I think back in the 80s), using real judges and attorneys and King Richard was found not guilty. Three Justices of the US Supreme Court also held a mock trial in the late 90’s and came back with the same verdict.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Hmmm, Julia. Was Richard found not guilty, or innocent. Perhaps there simply wasn’t enough evidence against him to actually say he was guilty…
M. J. says
I either wasn’t aware, or had forgotten about, those “trials.” I wonder if tapes or DVDs of either (or both!) of them are available for purchase? They sound as though they might be interesting!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
M. J., I had never even heard about the mock trials. That’s how out of the loop I am!
*Susan says
Josephine Tey is a very… unusual author. (IMHO, anyway.)
Her books are all so different to each other.
I could never get into ‘Daughter’, but please let me recommend ‘The Franchise Affair’. It’s much more your classic cosy. Amateur sleuth, twisty mystery, and a perfect courtroom denoument!
I’ve read this several times and I still find it hard to believe it was written nearly 65 years ago. The ending in particular could have come from today’s newspapers.
Hope you enjoyed / are enjoying your holidays!
Danna - cozy mystery list says
*Susan, I think that had my husband not been with me, there’s a strong chance that I wouldn’t have finished The Daughter of Time. I like history, but with so many more facts being so accessible these days…
linda c says
Danna, I have a niece-in-law that does most of her “reading” by listening to audio books on her car radio CD system while driving home in rush hour traffic. I didn’t think that I would be able to stay concentrated enough listening to a book like this and still be able to pay attention to the road until on the way home from a vacation one time I had a history of Notre Dame football on. I found that a person can listen, or at least I could, this way and also pay attention to the road.. If I missed something I could just back track and listen to what I missed. What a great way to while away the driving time.
Steve Gomez says
“Daughter of Time” is a great book, but it isn’t a typical Inspector Grant mystery. Most of his books are traditional mysteries. The subject of Tey’s book, however, WAS typical of the things she wrote. She had a great love of historical intrigue, and also wrote non-fiction pieces.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thanks, Steve, I have Josephine Tey’s Bratt Farrar on my audible, I’ll give that Stand Alone mystery book a try.
Joshua says
I have to agree with the person who mentioned that all of Tey’s book are different from one another. Brat Farrar is one of my top two favorites of hers, but though I think it’s more of a traditional mystery than Daughter of Time I still think of it as less of a mystery and more in the tradition of, say, a gothic suspense novel.
My other personal favorite of Tey, which doesn’t get much attention, is Miss Pym Disposes. I have to say I think it’s very light on the mystery part, but it is definitely a cozy type read (although maybe a little more psychologically tense than average cozy). It’s more about the character development and the quirks of the world of an all-girl boarding school. However, I think the writing is wonderful and the details of that book stay with me more than a lot of others.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Joshua, I have Brat Farrar on audible, but think I’ll wait for a while before reading it.
Joan says
But, Daughter of Time is the story of one of the classic mysteries of all time. What did happen to those two little boys? Unfortunately, we will never know for sure … that is, until someone invents a time machine to go back and see what happened.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Joan, my husband told me that they found two children’s skeletons beneath some stairwa, he thinks in the Tower, that they are now waiting for DNA results…
M. J. says
Yes, I believe there were a couple of skeletons found under a stairway in the Tower some time in the 1930s. There were some tests done on them with the science available at the time, then they were buried in Westminster Abbey and the Queen has not yet been persuaded to allow them to be disinterred and retested to see if advances in forensics would yield any further clues.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
M. J., I think this seems like a shame… sort of an “If I ignore it, it doesn’t exists.” type of solution.
M. J. says
I couldn’t agree more, Danna! Unfortunately neither you nor I are in any position to influence Her Majesty’s opinions!! I can’t help wondering, as well, if the scientist(s) in the 30s might have been influenced (unconsciously, of course!) in his/their conclusions by the “Sir Thomas More said the Princes were buried under a set of stairs, these skeletons were found under a set of stairs, therefore these skeletons must be the Princes” sort of thinking. One hopes he/they were able to remain objective and let the evidence speak for itself, but one cannot (as I said above) help wondering…
Julia says
The bones that were found were of two pre-adolescent children, too young to have formed skeletal sexual characterisitcs – there is no way to tell if they were boys or girls. Given the current status of DNA testing they might be able to determine if they were Plantagenets or not, but that would be about the best they could do.
linda says
Danna, I have never read any of the books by this author so since I have to take back some books at one of the area libraries today I am going to pick up a few of her books. So many of you seem to really enjoy her books so much, I think I will give her a try. Hopefully I will be able to get a few in the large Print section.
linda says
I couldn’t find any books by this author today but I intend to check other libraries out later on this week.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda, I’m pretty sure you will be able to find one of Josephine Tey’s mysteries in one of your libraries. She is pretty “classic”.
linda c says
danna, I have 3 books by this author coming from the area lending library. One is the daughters of Time. Another has 3 books in one. hope I can get those for me to read this weekend.
Regina says
danna, i enjoyed that book many years ago pre-internet. I like books like that modern with a historical twist. Didn’t Elizabeth Peters have a book with a similar theme about Richard III? In reading Lesley Cookman’s books, I find that they remind me of Simon Brett’s Fethering novels. Two female heroines with dissimilar backrounds but becoming close friends as they solve mysteries. Off on a cruise tomorrow from Boston north, my trusty Nook is all charged and loaded for bear.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Regina, have a great time on your cruise… but don’t spend too much time with your Nook!
*Susan says
Regina, I know you won’t see this before you leave, but the Elizabeth Peters mystery you refer to is “The Murders of Richard III” one of her Jacqueline Kirby Mysteries.
Have a great time on your cruise!
Julia says
Oh, I love that book! I’m not a big fan of the Jacqueline Kirby books (I love Elizabeth Peters, but the Jacqueline books are not my favorites), but that one is really good. Lots of historical detail, lots of atmosphere but more plotting than bloodletting (hope that doesn’t count as a spoiler)
M. J. says
Yes, Elizabeth Peters did write about the mystery of the “Princes in the Tower” in one of her books featuring Jacqueline Kirby. It was set at a “Ricardian-themed” house party in England and was called “The Murders of Richard III.”
Danna - cozy mystery list says
M. J., thanks for the info!
Donna says
Thanks for posting this review, Danna! The book is on my TBR list, having heard it mentioned recently on this site and a few others I visit. For my taste, if a book has the word “mystery” in the genre, whether historical mystery, cozy mystery, hard boiled mystery, etc, the focus of the book had better be on the MYSTERY. That’s the whole point, isn’t it? 🙂
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Donna, the focus of Tey’s The Daughter of Time was the mystery, but the facts that kept being brought to Inspector Grant in the hospital were facts that were a little tenuous (to me).
susie calkins says
I remember having to read it in one of my British history classes, but I couldn’t enjoy it as I usually would because we had to analyze the author’s characterization of the narrative. (not fun when you just want to read a good book!). The actual story is one of the great unsolved mysteries. From what I understand, the Queen will not allow the DNA analysis to be done, so it may take a while 🙂
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Hmmmm, Susie… it’s a shame that the DNA tests couldn’t put this question to sleep…
marion says
Susie, that sounds like such a FUN assignment-bleah! I wonder why the Queen won’t allow the DNA analysis. The crown has switched hands so often through history, I wouldn’t think it would discredit the crown or anything. Any insights, anyone?
susie calkins says
I think there are a few reasons why the Queen has refused the DNA testing: The skeletons have been re-sealed in a royal tomb; additionally a locket containing a lock of Mary Tudor’s hair (which would provide necessary confirmation DNA) is also locked and sealed. The Queen has said she does not want these royal tombs opened. I suspect the Queen likes to brush over scandal. The DNA evidence won’t prove who killed the poor boys anyway, and there are a few suspects still. This has been a very timely discussion, as you know, since prime suspect Richard III appears to have been found (ignobly buried in a car park in Leicester)–DNA evidence will confirm it’s him. I’m wondering whether they will give him a state funeral, given this question of whether he arranged for the murder of those princes?
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thanks, Susie, for all of this info. I will have to take a look at the internet when I get home – our access has been abysmal…
Julia says
I can see that they don’t want to unseal the tomb (and open up a new scandal), but they wouldn’t have to worry about Mary Tudor’s lock of hair – the DNA they need would have to come from one of Elizabeth of York’s daughter’s descendants (or her sisters’ daughters’ descendants), not her son’s (it has to be from the female line). Of course, given the Tudor tendency to eliminate any competition, I’m not sure how many samples of that DNA are still out there, anyway.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Julia, I can’t keep all of the royal families straight >>> with so many cousins marrying cousins…
marion says
Lol. The DNA might not have put the question to sleep but I think Susie’s class’s assignment would have put ME to sleep for sure!
marion says
My library has only 3 of Tey’s novels. In case, others have trouble finding them, your library may offer an interlibrary loan system. At my library, they just charge 2 dollars per book to cover postage. Not bad, especially if you don’t plan on reading the book more than once.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
I think I’ve said this before, Marion >>> Your library sounds like a really good system.
marion says
Thanks, Danna, I’m very proud and pleased with it. My mother worked there for 23 years and I was raised in that place since I was 11. I have lived in places that did not have a good library and OH, how I missed it until I got back to San Marcos. I am there everyday for one reason or another. By the way, I am so glad you and your husband had a wonderful trip and I am glad you are safely home. I found I really missed you even though there was Internet connection everyday.
linda c says
marion 2 dollars a book!! i am very lucky then that i don’t have to pay anything except if the books are overdue, then the books are a dollar a day. when i have books from the lending libraries I read them all first!!
Myra Duffy says
You may be interested to know that what are thought to be the bones of Richard III have very recently been found under a council car park in Leicester, England. The skeleton appeared to have suffered from severe scoliosis (curvature of the spine) and the location is right for the Franciscan Friary near Bosworth where Richard was killed. There are plans afoot to give him a ‘royal’ burial, perhaps in Westminster Abbey.(www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19561018 for the full story).
I love Barbara Pym and you may know she was obsessed with discovering her authentic ‘writer’s voice.’
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thanks for the info, Myra.
If you love Barbara Pym, then no doubt you have heard of Hazel Holt’s biography of her. (Holt happens to be an author I love…)
Myra Duffy says
..oops,my internet crashed before I could finish my post!
I wanted to add… Josephine Tey seems to me to be another writer in a similar mould who was concerned about her ‘voice’ and I suspect ‘Daughter of Time’ was an attempt to write something which very much intrigued her. I should imagine the difficulty about historical mystery is getting the details correct.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Myra, I’m glad you added this second part to your previous comment. Until I read this, I wondered where we were going…
marion says
I was really impressed, Danna, at how many communications there were related to originally just one entry about one book. Wow! It is so nice to contribute and read others’ comments.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
I know, Marion, we’re like a small “village” of Cozy Mystery readers.
linda says
Isn’t it amazing how even after all of these years, centuries really, these mysteries such as those of King Richard and the little princes still attract so much attention? I am reading a book right now by Marian Babson titled “The Twelve Deaths of Christmas” that has the mystery of Jack the Ripper woven into the present day murders in London. I have read many books that mention Jack the Ripper, as I am sure most of you have done.
This morning I saw a news segment that has people believing they know where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. One of the “Murder, She Wrote” episodes dealt with the murder of President Kennedy. Each year at the time of the anniversary of his murder people still speculate as to what “really” happened. I remember that day as if it were last week. I was 18 years old.
There are so many of these mysterious true life murders that still grab our attention, is there any wonder why people are so drawn to the murder mysteries in books!! It’s just fascinating. We want to know what “really” happened even after all this time?
Do any of you think that when we get to our Heaven, or to whatever HereAfter we think we will go to, we’ll be able to find out? I hope so.
marion says
I have always believed that we are all knowing after death. I suppose that would include who shot Kennedy. I still believe that if anyone was involved, other than Oswald, that it was Ruby and that Ruby shot Oswald to keep him from talking. I haven’t studied this. It just seems like the most straight forward explanation to me.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda, you make a really good point. When you think about it, it seems like quite a few authors use true, historical crimes a lot in their fictitious crime books.
Julia says
Oh, I love “The Twelve Deaths of Christmas” – I read it every December (along with “We Wish You a Merry Murder”, by Valerie Wolzien and “Aunt Dimity’s Christmas”, by Nancy Atherton). It’s kind of a funny sort of book, because while the murders are brutal and particularly sad in the choice of victims, it’s also rather sweet to see a bunch of almost strangers coming together and making an odd sort of family ranged against the force of evil. Maybe that’s what makes it so suited for Christmas – dark and light all bound up together.
As for the real-life historical mysteries, I think my only concern is that the murder took place sufficiently far enough in the past that those who would be hurt by strangers viewing it as a puzzle rather than a tragedy are gone. I would love to be able to solve a crime that baffled law enforcement (drum roll, please)…as long as my game isn’t some living person’s worst memory.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Julia, I read Marian Babson‘s The Twelve Deaths of Christmas last year, and still remember most of the details. That’s saying a lot (for me)!
linda c says
Danna, I did request “The Daughters of Time” and I picked it up today. Along with this book are 2 other books in this one book. “The Singing Sands, ” and “A Shilling for Candles” are included in this book.
This will be a crockpot weekend to be sure.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Linda C, I hope your “crockpot weekend” included a lot of good mystery-reading.
linda c says
Danna, We here in Ohio, my part anyway, are supposed to have some nasty weather moving in tomorrow (Friday). This will definitely be a crock pot weekend. I did finally get a copy of this book by Josephine Tey. Looks like this might be a very good weekend for a book like this.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Let us know what you think of Daughter of Time. I’m still not sure I enjoyed it that much.
linda c says
Danna, I did try to read this book but just could not get interested enough to finish. Maybe another time! Another good example of there being many books written on many topics so that all of us who like to read are able to find something to interest for each of us. Thank goodness for a variety of writers writing a variety of books and stories.
Steve says
Another great mystery series with an historical side is the Brother Cadfael series by Ellis Peters. The stories take place in the 1100’s (I think) when King Stephen and the Empress Maud are vying for the crown of England. One or two of these books is on both of the top 100 mystery lists. I listen to the recorded versions, and that narrator is probably the best I have ever hear.
Danna - cozy mystery list says
Thanks, Steve. Ellis Peters is one of my favorite authors.
Patrick says
I found a biography about Josephine Tey which was published last year.
Josephine Tey: A Life by Jennifer Morag Henderson, Sandstone Press Ltd, $9.99. ISBN 9781910985373